Pleased to meet you all and any Cathars!

[Truthseeker]

I'm curious to know what you studied in that latest college class Truthseeker.

The class is Humanities II. It basically covers European history from the beginning of the Renaissance up through the French Revolution. The last chapter was about uprisings against the Church. In addition to Luther we covered Wyclif, Hus, Zwingli and Calvin. We also covered the Church's massacres in France of the Cathars, Waldensians and later the Huguenots. We didn't go into it in any great depth. I'm sure you know a lot more about the Cathars than I do.

 

[SeaAndSky]

I just thought I'd bump this thread up. It predates my time on the board, but the Cathars are very interesting to me, and I thought I would check for any further words from regulars here (like Tinkerman) on the subject, plus any new folks who have backgrounds with the Cathars and similar groups. There is far more available on the subject now (online and elsewhere) than there used to be, so I feel like the Cathar themed discussions that I have just finished going through on the board were definitely forerunners of a growing trend/interest in this subject.

 

[Kaye]

I just thought I'd bump this thread up. It predates my time on the board, but the Cathars are very interesting to me, and I thought I would check for any further words from regulars here (like Tinkerman) on the subject, plus any new folks who have backgrounds with the Cathars and similar groups. There is far more available on the subject now (online and elsewhere) than there used to be, so I feel like the Cathar themed discussions that I have just finished going through on the board were definitely forerunners of a growing trend/interest in this subject.

Hi,
I had a past life regression last year, over an hour long. I have tried looking up different Cathar groups but all seemed focused on new catharism which was not what I experienced at all. I was with women, with an older one specifically who I wad learning from. The outlook was so unusual. It really moved me. They were 'gathered' and not taken, 'without a destination'. The word Dying or Death was not in my regression. It was thought of as transitioning, and I was told it was like 'Stepping over a stone'. That we were from light to light, returning through light (fire). That we were well prepared for the transition. Also some huge emphasis that 'All time is one'. That message was told to me over and over and I do not understand. I was told it was very important I understand that. Except I do not and it frustrates me. The clothing I describe as dark blue, midnight blue, black blue and she had on some plin white shift under it with something around her waist. Extremely plain. Extremely thin, older. What floored me is as I am watching her I am struck by how humble and plain she was. That it was not about knowledge but about understanding. That she understood her place within the transition into forever. That I was going to experience illness in this life and not to dwell so much. I was told 'endure what you must as we did and then you step into forever and then forever was simply forever'. Also they had a 'sympathy' for everyone who was here now but it was important we chose to be here now. That they were able to move back and forth but could not impact matter here. Again, huge impact that 'there is only one Time, Time is one' over and over. I have zero idea what that means. It hurts my head trying to understand that. Anyhow, my life was really impacted by that.
Oh also, HUGE emphasis on being chaste and 'free from desire'. Not just sexually, free from wanting. We were from light to light returning through light. And the fire did not matter. The preparation was like hypermeditation, to not focus around you but to focus inward like stepping over a stone together. I was with 4 women, 1 older one. And I am blown away by the beauty of it all in simplicity, humble, and living with the purpose of returning to light which the thought of as forever. Kaye

 

[Kaye]

Also.. they were really quiet, not full of constant chatter like life is now. I was also told that me now, because I 'dwell' that I had 'scattered my energies'. Some of it made me feel I would not live a very long life now, not into an old lady but the message was I was to understand they were there. Also that it was when I felt the most hopeless that they were close to me. It left me feeling just cut off from modern catharism and some incredible yearning to find someone from then. Also, you are not special or anything just because you saw your regression. Its about the loss of you concept of self in the material word. There are a lot of cathars born now. I dont know why, was not told that. I cant add anything other than the regression scenes. Its a mistake to. I saw through a window of past. Just a window though and nothing more.

 

[Speedwell]

@Kaye Thanks for sharing your experience. I don't think I have any personal connection with the Cathars, but their ideas and way of life interested me ever since I read - years ago now - several books by Dr Arthur Guirdham. He was a doctor of psychiatry, and during the course of his practice uncovered evidence of reincarnation, which then unfolded into learning of Catharism, the story of their being wiped in Mediaeval times out for failing to conform to the official religion.

He also wrote of a past life which included the Eleusinian Mysteries, another intriguing area. I'm not sure I see myself as directly connected with these things, but still feel I can relate, Catharism in a way seems related to certain Buddhist ideas too, there seems an overlap of ideas - though some differences too.

By the way, Guirdham did specifically mention the dark blue clothing, a lot of what you wrote fits what I've read.

 

[Kaye]

@Kaye Thanks for sharing your experience. I don't think I have any personal connection with the Cathars, but their ideas and way of life interested me ever since I read - years ago now - several books by Dr Arthur Guirdham. He was a doctor of psychiatry, and during the course of his practice uncovered evidence of reincarnation, which then unfolded into learning of Catharism, the story of their being wiped in Mediaeval times out for failing to conform to the official religion.

He also wrote of a past life which included the Eleusinian Mysteries, another intriguing area. I'm not sure I see myself as directly connected with these things, but still feel I can relate, Catharism in a way seems related to certain Buddhist ideas too, there seems an overlap of ideas - though some differences too.

By the way, Guirdham did specifically mention the dark blue clothing, a lot of what you wrote fits what I've read.

That is so interesting.. with your varied learnings, do any of them mention the concept of All Time is One? What is that, do you have any theories? I feel disappointed that I do not understand. They said Time was like walking from one mist into another mist and we perceive it as time passing. But the all exist in the same moment, that All Time is One. Its was literal. There are no coincidences so even though you may not feel you were cathar, you may be linked to adding missing pieces of understanding to the ones who were there. I feel like such an important concept given to me I have failed to grasp. Does any of what you have read strike a chord of that concept? I just fall flat in trying to make sense of that. I would appreciate anything you might add.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Kaye,

I’m very pleased to see someone with Cathar memories posting, and very interested in anything you can recall. As you can tell by searching Cathar or Catharism, we have had a few PL Cathars come through over the years, but most did not stay for long. I believe it may be because they were really intent on re-connecting with other Cathars and recovering the actual doctrines, practices and beliefs of Catharism. As you may have noticed, this site is a heterogenous mixing ground (and cross-roads) for all kinds of folks with all kinds of backgrounds, beliefs, stages of development, etc. From that standpoint, it can offer a lot in terms of variety. However, I suspect that those who have claimed PL Catharism found it a bit off-focus in terms of what they were seeking.

For my part, I would be very interested in a site that connected PL Cathars, but have not found one. There are some fairly good sites that provide as much “history” as is available, but they are primarily based on records from the Inquisition, which I find inherently problematic. At best, I think such records may give some idea of the exoteric aspects of Catharism, but provide little of nothing about the types of esoteric doctrines and beliefs that you mention. Like you, I have found the Neo-Cathar sites and groups I have looked into to be somewhat disappointing. I have no objection to them, and they may be quite positive for those involved, but overall they seem to be a bit of a New Age hodge-podge with “Cathar” flavoring added (like most other attempts to recreate lost belief systems in the modern era).

Consequently, I have hoped that those who dropped by the board in the past might come back, re-connect on this board, and stick with this or some other threads dedicated to the Cathars as a permanent presence on this board and as a way to re-call and re-build what has been lost. However, you are the first PL Cathar I can recall posting here in quite awhile. So, I hope you will stay and become a presence. With time, if a steady Cathar presence can be maintained, it may be that others will gravitate back.

In terms of all time being one, I have heard many ideas along this line over the years. Related ideas come up in theology, mysticism, and even physics. For example, many theologians consider God to be above and outside of time, and able to look down on the entire span of time as a single simultaneously existing whole. Mystics also speak of reaching “timeless” states of being as they seek to transcend ordinary reality and, so to speak, interact with/experience God* at something close to God’s level. So, both of these ideas would go along with what you are talking about. From the physics standpoint, there are so many theories out there that it boggles the mind. However, “time” is often considered to be just another dimension. On all of these, I claim no great knowledge. I think only those who have experienced this state of being can "understand" it, but I do know that there are those who seem to have confirmed this through personal experience.

Cordially,
S&S

PS-- *“God is Light” is one of the “God is” statements of scripture, and may connect to the emphasis on the “Light” you mention. This truth tends to be a very important part of the mystical tradition.

PPS--Like you, I am looking for answers in this area. I have very little in the way of PL memories, and no PL memories in re the Cathars, but I have felt an abiding and deep connection to, and a strong longing for, what they were and represent (which I believe may be quite different from what is represented about them in available "historical" sources).

 

[Kaye]

Hi Kaye,

I’m very pleased to see someone with Cathar memories posting, and very interested in anything you can recall. As you can tell by searching Cathar or Catharism, we have had a few PL Cathars come through over the years, but most did not stay for long. I believe it may be because they were really intent on re-connecting with other Cathars and recovering the actual doctrines, practices and beliefs of Catharism. As you may have noticed, this site is a heterogenous mixing ground (and cross-roads) for all kinds of folks with all kinds of backgrounds, beliefs, stages of development, etc. From that standpoint, it can offer a lot in terms of variety. However, I suspect that those who have claimed PL Catharism found it a bit off-focus in terms of what they were seeking.

For my part, I would be very interested in a site that connected PL Cathars, but have not found one. There are some fairly good sites that provide as much “history” as is available, but they are primarily based on records from the Inquisition, which I find inherently problematic. At best, I think such records may give some idea of the exoteric aspects of Catharism, but provide little of nothing about the types of esoteric doctrines and beliefs that you mention. Like you, I have found the Neo-Cathar sites and groups I have looked into to be somewhat disappointing. I have no objection to them, and they may be quite positive for those involved, but overall they seem to be a bit of a New Age hodge-podge with “Cathar” flavoring added (like most other attempts to recreate lost belief systems in the modern era).

Consequently, I have hoped that those who dropped by the board in the past might come back, re-connect on this board, and stick with this or some other threads dedicated to the Cathars as a permanent presence on this board and as a way to re-call and re-build what has been lost. However, you are the first PL Cathar I can recall posting here in quite awhile. So, I hope you will stay and become a presence. With time, if a steady Cathar presence can be maintained, it may be that others will gravitate back.

In terms of all time being one, I have heard many ideas along this line over the years. Related ideas come up in theology, mysticism, and even physics. For example, many theologians consider God to be above and outside of time, and able to look down on the entire span of time as a single simultaneously existing whole. Mystics also speak of reaching “timeless” states of being as they seek to transcend ordinary reality and, so to speak, interact with/experience God* at something close to God’s level. So, both of these ideas would go along with what you are talking about. From the physics standpoint, there are so many theories out there that it boggles the mind. However, “time” is often considered to be just another dimension. On all of these, I claim no great knowledge. I think only those who have experienced this state of being can "understand" it, but I do know that there are those who seem to have confirmed this through personal experience.

Cordially,
S&S

PS-- *“God is Light” is one of the “God is” statements of scripture, and may connect to the emphasis on the “Light” you mention. This truth tends to be a very important part of the mystical tradition.

PPS--Like you, I am looking for answers in this area. I have very little in the way of PL memories, and no PL memories in re the Cathars, but I have felt an abiding and deep connection to, and a strong longing for, what they were and represent (which I believe may be quite different from what is represented about them in available "historical" sources).

That made the hair on my arm stand up, what you just wrote. I was shocked my regression was so detailed and long, when he brought me out I could not remember the dialog but he recorded it. Here were some unusual points:
- I bought some books later and found it pretty absurd to see history said they walked into the fire singing. What I saw was they knew they would die and were prepared. That was done in prayer and meditation. I was instructed to not look around me, to not look back, to focus on the light we would enter into by figuratively stepping over the stone. Talking, panicking, being caught up in your body would break your concentration. It was going inward, inward and further still. Ir was being in a state of within
Singing would never have happened.
- I say that we are part of something very established and it was consideted an honor to be there
- The concept was very personal. That is that each soul is within a body here. Great emphasis to not be of the body. But to understand the personal journey of each soul to return to light, to complete its journey. To return to light.
- that part of the other dide being light you carry as light in terms of the soul. So no death but a transition.
- Abstinence was seen as spiritual over the physical, with the intent of being free of want, of desire. Not driven by 'want'
- the elder one knelt before like 1 long stone.. I describe it looking like a step in middle of floor on stone.
- Zero adorment, on her or walls. Her clothes I describe as material draped on her, of no importance
- I am im awe watching her, the simplicity. Describe her gesture as humbling herself beneath something far greater. And that she understood her link into forever, something like that. I say 'her undetstandimg is what carries her'.
- it was Montsegur, 4 women with those who burnt. I have to wonder if it was Rixende??
- I say that the moment we had standing close together before we were separated to be burned, that the moment was imprinted on us. Which is why The regression opens with me seeing them in spirit first.
- when I saw them in spirit, from shouldets up with gold ligjt streaming from behind them towards me.
- I say if the light had a name it would be kindness.

Btw: I can send a copy of that CD to anyone who wants it. I am hoping it resurges someone memory now. Anyone can debate the recording. Its like a window. I think history books added lore and glamor. They were people like us but undistracted from their purpose.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Kaye,

I believe it is possible that some Cathars went to the flame singing--the ordinary believers--and that others went to the flame in a deep prayerful/meditative state like you describe--the Cathar perfect or elect.

This is a distinction--between ordinary Cathar believers and the Cathar "perfects" (parfait)--that is attested to by all sources, and since it has to do with exoteric matters rather than beliefs and esoteric practices (and is not derogatory) I think it can be trusted. (You may note that I look at derogatory comments, "facts" or descriptions as being possible creations of the inquisitors, who may well have been expected to describe the Cathars and their beliefs in the worst way possible).

In any case, it seems very well attested that the Cathars were divided into two groups: the more numerous ordinary believers, and those who had undergone special training and commitments to become the "perfect" or elect. Of the Elect/Perfect, though there was no distinction made between male and female in terms of spiritual matters, preaching, teaching and etc. it was more common for female perfects to remain in one place and to serve out of a home or other stable location, which could serve as a hostel for traveling elect, for teaching, hospitality, healing, etc., while the male perfects would more often travel in pairs to preach and teach, etc. (preferably done in open fields and natural locations out-of-doors as was done by Jesus). This being the case, I consider it quite possible that the ordinary Cathar believers may have used what means they could to cope with their impending deaths--including singing--while the Cathar perfects (such as you seem to describe) would have used more advanced spiritual techniques.

You may wish to explore the following site for more information about Cathar practices: http://www.cathar.info/ I think it is about as good as can be found; however, I take anything of this type with a grain of salt. First, as noted, the witnesses for the prosecution here, inquisitors and the like, would naturally have cast the ones they came to destroy in the worst light possible. Hence, I think that a lot of derogatory "facts" plus emphasis on strange or bizarre beliefs and practices are probably exaggerations or outright creations. Second, I think most of the things reported came from ordinary Cathar believers (not the Cathar perfects). Ordinary believers (including peasants) would not necessarily have been privy to and/or have understood many aspects of the higher beliefs and doctrines of Catharism, and might also have included their own "folk" beliefs about same. Plus, considering the fact that torture was a normal part of interrogation in those days, it is quite possible that many ordinary believers might have been tempted to say anything the inquisitor desired after awhile.

In terms of a CD, this would be great, but I think it might be better and more useful to a greater number for you to put the recording on Youtube. There are many regression Youtubes, but none that I know of from Cathars, so it would be of possible importance to many interested in this area.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Though there are a great many differences, the Cathars remind me in some respects of the early Quakers in terms of the emphasis (among the Perfect at least) on silent meditation and "The Light" as well as the equality between males and females in spiritual matters, absence of the usual accoutrements of worship, emphasis on simplicity and non-violence, lack of priesthood/sacraments, and etc.

PPS--The names we use for them, including "Cathars" were those given by the persecutors. They knew themselves and were known by their adherents and neighbors simply as Good Christians, Good Men, Good Women, etc.

 

[Kaye]

That is very interesting, I had not thought of that. I can see how that would be possible, for one group to have gone into that vocal and others not. We were silent though. I have no idea how to post on youtube, how do you do that? I really appreciate the comments I have received back. This site was found by accident yesterday. I was regressed by Karl Schlotterbeck. He is psychologist and regressionist. I had a passing interest in cathars in 1992. Never shared that and moved on with life. 2 years ago, maybe 2 1/2 I came down with a 5 day fever which resulted in broken red spider veins and very large 1-2 inch bruises all over my lower legs and shoulders and the whites of my eyes were red. I was scared I had some horrible disease like lupus since I have RA. Took a lot of pictures and kept sending to my rheumatologist, what is wrong with me? Lots of lab work and no answers, not disease. Took about 3 months to fade. In meantime I began to have back to back dreams over 1 month. Always viewing scenes that had some lesson or challenge and end of each dream I found out its directed at me. Each dream had me looking at something else. Then glimpses of me, but maybe 22 and fire. Really quick, maybe seconds I started experiencing a gut wrenching crying related to the cathars. Where does this leave a person, in a place of nowhere. Did not know any cathars, no exposure, no one I knew had even heard of them. It felt like neing pulled into a cathar lige. But for what, why, why now and for what reason as this had zero to do with any beliefs. Karl was in my state hiving workshops and I had reached out to him how troubling all of this was. Then he regressed me and it changed my life. I had had dreams of celibacy and that my life would be forever day and never night. And I moved into that mindset. I reached out online then trying to find places to connect and it was very disappointing. So I gave up and decided I would quietly live a cathar life. Some that I connected with were very full of self, as if it was of great importance to have beem someone 'famous' with the cathars. I had seen the complete opposite, that your connection to your sense of self or personal acclaim haf zero importance. It was instead an inner pathway that had nothing to do with your body. Then this forum crossed my path and felt compelled to write. Then shockingly people responded. I have to fathom that I am meant to learn something from this group or it would not have transpired this way. I do not understand the concept of all time is one, which is repeated throughout. What I chose to stay away from wad inserting myself into what is on the tape. I am no expert, I work in IT, I wish I had the understanding in the regression but my life is most ordinary. What is a blessing is the beautiful chance to have been given the window. My life went in a confirmed path at that path. There are many cathars alive now. No one is special as a result, but we share a common thread and hope to understand why its imperative now. It makes me feel like a spec of matter in an endless continuum of a moment.

 

[Kaye]

Sorry for typos, I have a fused thumb because of RA and hard to type without being clunky!

 

[fireflydancing]

Wow Kaye, I love your posts. You seem to have the desire to integrate your former knowledge into the Now. I think that's the only purpose of remembering old lives: to create a kind of continuation. Sometimes this means the closure of that past, sometimes it means to carry on with the quest, just under new circumstances.
I know about the Cathars and their way of thinking and a bit of their tragic history. I once helped a friend with memories as a Cathar to find out about what happened to them.
The mysticism of the Cathars doesn't appeal to me, it's too much black & white, good vs evil and so on. You could wonder... with their strong disapproval of sex (and consequently pregnancies) even without the Inquisition, the Cathars could have vanished anyway because they didn't procreate.

Still, it was an interesting spiritual movement in history. Interesting points of view, good material for profound discussions.

 

[Speedwell]

The mysticism of the Cathars doesn't appeal to me, it's too much black & white, good vs evil and so on. You could wonder... with their strong disapproval of sex (and consequently pregnancies) even without the Inquisition, the Cathars could have vanished anyway because they didn't procreate.

It's funny, I don't feel myself to be on the inside as it were when it comes to Cathar belief, but in my younger days I did find myself independently reaching the view that procreation was simply imprisoning yet more souls in this physical world. It isn't a popular view and I found few people with whom to properly discuss the idea, it just remained my own isolated thought. I think that may be why when I later came across Catharism, I felt I could relate, I'd already reached some of the same ideas.

 

[Kaye]

Its hard to understand their concepts, it was very black and white. I have tried to understand why. People were tortured and burnt alive, I have to think their existance was one of extremes. I agree that unless someone joined on their owm, there would be no one left in 50 years. I was shown that the negative force they saw they feel is in the times we live in rather than a body like the inquisition. They felt we live in unrelenting times that are pulling us apart. One of my lesson dreams, its the way I was shown, so odd. To be shown as a story and st ends its actually me they are pointing out. This one is about the concept of wealth, how you concieve wealth.
I am in homeless in front of old apartment. Live in the streets and all I own is a bed. Another homeless family sets up next to me. Young parents, her father snd a girl of 4. All they own is a bowl. They do not speak English and squat in the dirt in a cluster all day. The husband and father touch noses before they go to sleep. I am thinking in US men would never do that. They all clearly love each other. I feel sorry for the girl sleeping in street and I give my bed to them. My only possession. They dont speak English so assume I dont want it anymore rather than a gift. They all climb in, share their bowl and just exist. Their day is filled with quiet moments of affection and they pay no attention to me. I am thinking I gave them the only thing I had. Then I hear a voice, a male voice of someone not in dream say they were never poor, they had each other. The only one who was poor was you, all you had was a bed and nothing more.
Ouch. So my slew of 'direction' dreams were hard to take for a month. They were there to show me in ways I could see and understand. Flaws in my beliefs, concepts, understanding. Designed to remove sense of self or ego. It was hard to take since they would not stop. I thought, who and why is this happening, never asked for it. Like I was not seeking, they were seeking me. After month I felt if I am so full of flaws why not let me be? I never sought you out, you sought me out. Which is explained to me in regression
Through all that constant parable-in-your-face I felt embarrassed and weird. Then once I was sufficiently indone, opportunity for regression came forth and then I had my answers. I think no one chooses now to be cathar, it sometimes chooses you instead. It has not been easy. Those dreams exhausted me. Relentless. Ugh, it was hard. I felt picked apart to undo sense of self.

 

[Speedwell]

Wow Kaye, that's weighty stuff, but very interesting. Nothing quite like that has happened to me, though I've had my own journey of ego dissolution, mostly through illnesses. It isn't something which is happening to me at the moment though.

 

[Kaye]

I think we all ho through the lessons we chose to come back for. I have always believed that different lifetimes become accessible at points of your life where its relevent. Where it connects. The lessons I was given in dreams... oh wow hold on, in the regression it says those women cathars are accessible to me when Im asleep. Weird, wonder why the voice is male? Anyway, when I wake up Im always in a state to defend myself, its not what I meant, you did not know what I meant but I suppose thats ego too. Books add glamor to cathars, I saw one website that said there were crystal palaces, etc. Hmmm.. what I saw wete a group of asthetics who were focused on their inner pathway. I think the fact this forum exists means we are all trying to understand our soul choices and why we are hear. If a person has a beautiful family, a job they love or a job they hate and are alone, theres a lesson in that. My guess would be if you have a life of fullness never forget to be thankful or grateful and if you dont have certain things, be thankful for what you do have. Illness is a big one, I was told dont dwell on hardships. Everyone dwells, how can we not.

 

[Kaye]

In my next life I would like to not make typos when I type with my Charlie Brown fingers.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Firefly,

I wouldn’t worry too much about Cathars dying out based on not reproducing or encouraging reproduction. The path of the celibate renunciant and ascetic has been extolled in most world religions, including Christianity. Whether it is a Buddhist culture, a Christian culture, or a Hindu culture, the monk, nun, or other renunciant has historically been held in great respect as being or practicing the “higher” or more ideal way/path. (This was especially true of Christianity in the middle ages). Nonetheless, there are plenty of ordinary worshippers/practitioners in all of these religions/cultures (just as there were among the Cathars) who lived ordinary family lives with plenty of children. Only the Parfait among Cathars were required to remain celibate to preserve the effect and hope of the Consolamentum: a good death (i.e., one that led to a return to the Light and freedom/liberation from the sufferings of this world). Some managed to do so, but not all, as the example of Guillaume Belibaste (discussed below) makes clear.

Also, I think we often put the wrong emphasis on some of these sayings/teachings. For example, Christ said many things in an extreme way to make a point. Hyperbole as a rhetorical device is and was a well known and respected way of teaching in his age as well, I believe, as in the age of the Cathars. E.g., if people took Christ’s comment that one should cut off hands and/or feet if they lead you into sin literally, there would be very few Christians with hands and feet. Sayings like this are generally taken as statements made to emphasize the seriousness of sin rather than to encourage self-amputation of limbs. There are many things said (even in ordinary conversation) that are meant to be taken seriously, not literally.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Kaye,

I have also wondered about the blossoming of an interest in Catharism at this point in time. In fact, the Cathar period and beliefs are something that began to be “redicovered” in the 1800s, with increasing attention paid in the 1900s. But even this was mostly limited to Europe, where there was a regional audience in their old territories and/or among other Europeans interested in the esoteric. Catharism only recently seems to have come to the attention of many others. Dr. Arthur Guirdham’s books helped in this, as does the internet. A burgeoning interest in reincarnation and alternate spiritualities has also brought Catharism to the attention of many. But this doesn’t touch on you and your dreams. Why the month of dreams, why this sudden intervention in your life? Why you, why now?

I can only wonder at the oft cited prophecy of the last Cathar Parfait, Guillaume Belibaste before he was burned at the stake: “In seven hundred years the laurel will become green again, good people will return”. Of course, “Good People” is what the Cathars called themselves, and since Guillaume was executed in 1323, that would make 2023 exactly 700 years later. Many others have taken this "prophecy" as pointing to the current era. So, perhaps in this there is some clue as to why it seems that those with this background are being “awakened” to their past . . . and perhaps to a sense of present duty. Otherwise, I can only guess.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Guillaume was a person of many flaws (like the rest of us!). However, he was seemingly lured to his death by the idea that there were "unfallen" Parfait where he was going who could once again convey to/on him the Consolamentum. It is also said that he died well and bravely (as did other Cathars): http://www.cathar.info/cathar_whoswho.htm#belibaste

 

[Kaye]

Hi Firefly,

I wouldn’t worry too much about Cathars dying out based on not reproducing or encouraging reproduction. The path of the celibate renunciant and ascetic has been extolled in most world religions, including Christianity. Whether it is a Buddhist culture, a Christian culture, or a Hindu culture, the monk, nun, or other renunciant has historically been held in great respect as being or practicing the “higher” or more ideal way/path. (This was especially true of Christianity in the middle ages). Nonetheless, there are plenty of ordinary worshippers/practitioners in all of these religions/cultures (just as there were among the Cathars) who lived ordinary family lives with plenty of children. Only the Parfait among Cathars were required to remain celibate to preserve the effect and hope of the Consolamentum: a good death (i.e., one that led to a return to the Light and freedom/liberation from the sufferings of this world). Some managed to do so, but not all, as the example of Guillaume Belibaste (discussed below) makes clear.

Also, I think we often put the wrong emphasis on some of these sayings/teachings. For example, Christ said many things in an extreme way to make a point. Hyperbole as a rhetorical device is and was a well known and respected way of teaching in his age as well, I believe, as in the age of the Cathars. E.g., if people took Christ’s comment that one should cut off hands and/or feet if they lead you into sin literally, there would be very few Christians without missing hands and feet. Sayings like this are generally taken as statements made to emphasize the seriousness of sin rather than to encourage self-amputation of limbs. I.e., there are many things said (even in ordinary conversation) that are meant to be taken seriously, not literally.

Cordially,
S&S

Hi Kaye,

I have also wondered about the blossoming of an interest in Catharism at this point in time. In fact, the Cathar period and beliefs are something that began to be “redicovered” in the 1800s, with increasing attention paid in the 1900s. But even this was mostly limited to Europe, where there was a regional audience in their old territories and/or among other Europeans interested in the esoteric. Catharism only recently seems to have come to the attention of many others. Dr. Arthur Guirdham’s books helped in this, as does the internet. A burgeoning interest in reincarnation and alternate spiritualities has also brought Catharism to the attention of many. But this doesn’t touch on you and your dreams. Why the month of dreams, why this sudden intervention in your life? Why you, why now?

I can only wonder at the oft cited prophecy of the last Cathar Parfait, Guillaume Belibaste before he was burned at the stake: “In seven hundred years the laurel will become green again, good people will return”. Of course, “Good People” is what the Cathars called themselves, and since Guillaume was executed in 1323, that would make 2023 exactly 700 years later. Many others have taken this "prophecy" as pointing to the current era. So, perhaps in this there is some clue as to why it seems that those with this background are being “awakened” to their past . . . and perhaps to a sense of present duty. Otherwise, I can only guess.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Guillaume was a person of many flaws (like the rest of us!). However, he was seemingly lured to his death by the idea that there were "unfallen" Parfait where he was going who could once again convey to/on him the Consolamentum. It is also said that he died well and bravely (as did other Cathars): http://www.cathar.info/cathar_whoswho.htm#belibaste

Hi Kaye,

I have also wondered about the blossoming of an interest in Catharism at this point in time. In fact, the Cathar period and beliefs are something that began to be “redicovered” in the 1800s, with increasing attention paid in the 1900s. But even this was mostly limited to Europe, where there was a regional audience in their old territories and/or among other Europeans interested in the esoteric. Catharism only recently seems to have come to the attention of many others. Dr. Arthur Guirdham’s books helped in this, as does the internet. A burgeoning interest in reincarnation and alternate spiritualities has also brought Catharism to the attention of many. But this doesn’t touch on you and your dreams. Why the month of dreams, why this sudden intervention in your life? Why you, why now?

I can only wonder at the oft cited prophecy of the last Cathar Parfait, Guillaume Belibaste before he was burned at the stake: “In seven hundred years the laurel will become green again, good people will return”. Of course, “Good People” is what the Cathars called themselves, and since Guillaume was executed in 1323, that would make 2023 exactly 700 years later. Many others have taken this "prophecy" as pointing to the current era. So, perhaps in this there is some clue as to why it seems that those with this background are being “awakened” to their past . . . and perhaps to a sense of present duty. Otherwise, I can only guess.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Guillaume was a person of many flaws (like the rest of us!). However, he was seemingly lured to his death by the idea that there were "unfallen" Parfait where he was going who could once again convey to/on him the Consolamentum. It is also said that he died well and bravely (as did other Cathars): http://www.cathar.info/cathar_whoswho.htm#belibaste

I actually read about him after my regression. Since my regression was as a female parfait, the lessons and observations brought to my attention were from that point of view. As fir understanding the concept of celibacy I was shown yet another example, in this case I was supposed to understand it literally. It was supposed to help me during the phase of stepping into a cathar life as opposed to reading about it.
I am sitting cross legged on the floor and some man behind me doing same. He leans forward and wraps his arms around me. I sort of instinctively move but he stays like that. I am very uptight with some stranger in my personal space. But he doesnt move and wants me to be fully aware. When I do then it feels like being wrapped in warmth, totally safe, totally loved, but not sexual love. It feels like his essence moves through my core and I cannot believe this is happening. Then the voice I always hear asks me to examine what I was really looking for. To understand that all of those reactions do not have to come from a sexual union. Then he says from this point forward I will exist in only day and never night.
So I owned that and strangely enough felt incredibly beautiful on the inside. More female, more beautiful but on the inside. It was keeping a part of you not shared. And to learn to focus out of the concept of want.
I was at a loss why these old aesthetic lessons needed now. In regression I was shown I would endure illness and it was important I understood all of this and that they were there now. The last part of the regression I say the answer to the question is that it was the right time. I am trying to meet the potential I was shown. The challenge was to not fall into that was 700 years ago because over and over I am told its very important I understand there is only 1 time, all time is one. I am meant to buck up and understand that. Its really odd but I am owning it. Sure hope I dont die early, or transition early.

 

[Kaye]

Oh and its not meeting someone else's expectations of you, its surpassing your own expectations. Seeing through what you previously held yourself to.

 

[Speedwell]

About time: I think maybe the planet Earth has its own time, it revolves in its orbit around the sun, years and centuries pass by. But when I think of things from a past-life, they don't seem distant at all, what I was feeling or thinking centuries ago could be continued in the present moment, the same thought, the same feeling. In that sense there isn't any separation, the past isn't somewhere far away, it is here simply because there is only now. Maybe.

 

[Kaye]

About time: I think maybe the planet Earth has its own time, it revolves in its orbit around the sun, years and centuries pass by. But when I think of things from a past-life, they don't seem distant at all, what I was feeling or thinking centuries ago could be continued in the present moment, the same thought, the same feeling. In that sense there isn't any separation, the past isn't somewhere far away, it is here simply because there is only now. Maybe.

That is do cool because one of the references was 'the period of now'. This just does not make sense to me - with added bonus of making my head hurt - but the image I was shown in my head was time coexisting. Like past present and future exist like in parallel. Enter headache. It scrambles my thoughts. They saw it as literal. So Montsegur is somehow in now, as are anyone who transitioned. Its all in one moment and same place. I dont have the capacity to understand that. Its too much for me to say I get it because not on any level do I.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Kaye,

I'm dodging away from my work for a moment more. (I'd really rather be doing this, but . . .).

Anyhow, I agree that for you the ascetic and celibate principles seem to apply in full. You were not an ordinary Credente then, and you are not expected to regress to that state, but to advance from where you were, which seems to have been either a Parfait or training to be one. Plus, in life generally, the advanced student gets the advanced teacher. Your teacher seems to have been very advanced, which also reflects on who you were during that lifetime. Hmmm. It also goes without saying that the advanced student is expected to do and accomplish a lot more than the ordinary student. To whom more is given, more is expected. (I am not saying any of this to stimulate egotism, and I trust I won't--as you know, you were far behind/below your teacher--which should be enough to keep one humble).

In terms of time, I can only think that "all time is one" refers not to the material world, but to the spirit/soul. The spirit/soul you were then is still the same spirit/soul. If a regressionist wished to do so (and you were an apt subject), they could regress you to being a 4 year old. You would then think and respond as a 4 year old. The 4 year old is, therefore, still present and part of you--as a spirit/soul. Likewise, as spirit/soul you can be and know what you knew and were 6-700 years ago or a 1000 years ago. You are one, and time is meaningless. Hence, you can access anything and anyone you ever were and concepts like the "present" and "past" become meaningless for the soul/spirit which remains "one". Does this also extend in the opposite direction? Can you access/be who you are/will be in the future? Some think so, and hypnotism for "progression" as well as regression exists. I have read some interesting accounts in this area, but they vary widely in terms of future prognostications for the outer world. So, the extension of these concepts into the future obviously needs further thought. Unfortunately, I'm out of time at the moment.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[Kaye]

All of you have added so much to my insight, I feel lucky. What others add increases your vision, its so needed. So cool.

I have done a lot of research post regression trying to find out identity of older female, my mentor as well as 2 other women. 3 are always shoulder to shoulder, only her face has details. Extremely thin, grey hair, very dark blue cape thing, white shift, floppy clothing, no form. Draped in clothing. Something at waist. Died at Montsegur with the 3 of us, we all are in dark blue. We are gathered and moved from where we are, by men. Feels like being arrested. We are outside when it happens, when burned. I say when it happens its not day, but its a darker day, but not night and we are gathered then. So dusk or dawn? There is only 1 person who it can be as no one else would have been in that role. We were not believers, but cathar perfecta. Wore dark blue, black blue, midnight blue. My guess is its Rixende de Telle. From what I read online, she was in a mother supierior role. We lived together, had a stone floor, not wood. I felt 22. Do not know any women who died with her by name. We are face to face in silence before we were separated and burned. We all wore dark blue. She is the one interested in reaching out to me now, this older one. I was told it was important I know they are near me now. I describe it as a reclaiming. Interesting is all the bruises I had on my arms and legs when this all came circle now was where I was tied there. Psychsomatic memory or something, dont know. I took a lot of pictures because it was so weird. I dont know why now. I am hoping to know. Someone I know went to Montsegur and mailed me a stone from the summit. I tried to upload, file too big. When I hold it it makes my hand feel like a scrape. Not what I had thought at all. It definitely hurts. Not throb, like a scrape. Its bothersome so I keep in bedroom but almost never hold it. I think for all of us all we can do is hope to understand our past.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Kaye,

Well, despite your comment--“I think for all of us all we can do is hope to understand our past”--you seem to be doing more than just trying to understand your past. I.e., you seem to be not just seeking to understand who you were, etc., but becoming and progressing from where you left off as a Perfecta under the tutilage of Rixende de Telle and others. At least, it seems that way to me.

Plus, it seems to me that the “awakening” of Cathars that is taking place or is about to take place must be about more than just “understanding who” they were, but reviving and moving forward from there. If not, I have to wonder what the point would be. Likewise, I have to wonder what role you are intended to play in this?

Only a small percentage of those who died were Parfait. And, of these, you may well have been part of a very special group. Even if not, it is clear you have been given and are possibly still being given very special instructions and guidance. This begs the question: Why?

The only answer that I can come up with is that you—and possibly others like you—are intended to reconsitute Catharism. This cannot be done by admirers cobbling together some type of Neo-Catharism based on what they can find out from old sources leavened with New Age cliches. It also cannot be done by the far more numerous Credente, who never had full knowledge. It could only be done by Parfait with, or with something close to, full knowledge of the teachings.

Also, it does not appear that those who have well and truly left and entered the Light (Rixende?) intend to make a full return. So, this would leave those who were not at such an exalted level (after further instruction by such as Rixende) to do this. This begins to sound a lot like you.

Cordially,
S&S

PS—Why all who received the Consolamentum did not fully and finally enter the Light is an open question. I have some thoughts on the matter. However, those can wait.

 

[Kaye]

Hi Kaye,

Well, despite your comment--“I think for all of us all we can do is hope to understand our past”--you seem to be doing more than just trying to understand your past. I.e., you seem to be not just seeking to understand who you were, etc., but becoming and progressing from where you left off as a Perfecta under the tutilage of Rixende de Telle and others. At least, it seems that way to me.

Plus, it seems to me that the “awakening” of Cathars that is taking place or is about to take place must be about more than just “understanding who” they were, but reviving and moving forward from there. If not, I have to wonder what the point would be. Likewise, I have to wonder what role you are intended to play in this?

Only a small percentage of those who died were Parfait. And, of these, you may well have been part of a very special group. Even if not, it is clear you have been given and are possibly still being given very special instructions and guidance. This begs the question: Why?

The only answer that I can come up with is that you—and possibly others like you—are intended to reconsitute Catharism. This cannot be done by admirers cobbling together some type of Neo-Catharism based on what they can find out from old sources leavened with New Age cliches. It also cannot be done by the far more numerous Credente, who never had full knowledge. It could only be done by Parfait with, or with something close to, full knowledge of the teachings.

Also, it does not appear that those who have well and truly left and entered the Light (Rixende?) intend to make a full return. So, this would leave those who were not at such an exalted level (after further instruction by such as Rixende) to do this. This begins to sound a lot like you.

Cordially,
S&S

PS—Why all who received the Consolamentum did not fully and finally enter the Light is an open question. I have some thoughts on the matter. However, those can wait.

I feel the same way as you. A lot of what you have written affected me at core level. I know one of the biggest challenges are the published doctrines of their beliefs although the cathars themselves wrote very little. So much is based on the Inquisition accounts who were simultaneously torturing them and burning both cathar parfaits, believers, men, women and children along the way. So their accountability has got to be challenged on some level. This morning I had a eureka moment before work, it was something you mentioned, that was the trigger. I had had a really vivid dream about 7 months ago. It was a gathering of cathar men in what looked to be a hall or foyer. This rather distinguished place belonged to someone, the person felt really wealthy. It is during the interim period where they were given a chance to renounce or be burned. A man they trusted, who had let them stay there had concerns about the point of sacrificing yourself for your beliefs. Some of the men were pretty defiant in their tone and when I am viewing it I am thinking its how a crowd sometimes gets when 1 or 2 are more defiant and others say nothing. No one would have renounced, not ever, but the 2 vocal men definitely had tone. It was not the same vibe as the small women group. Its when I knew people are people no matter if you believe the same spiritually. I hate to say this but when I am viewing it, when I woke up I did not care for those 2 and they sounded sort of abrasive. Their right if you know what your fate is. Flash forward to this morning.. would it not be the ultimate defiance for those 2 to not be singing as they entered that area? It hit me and all of a sudden I knew why something like that would have happened or how easily it could have. I was part of 4 women who were silent but the male cathars from my dream were loud just like with any group. What I read online is that all supposedly did die silent so I have to believe the hyper meditation while transitioning was a practice they all learned. But could people have been singing in an in-your-face gesture of unity.. oh boy, yes. I had forgotten about that dream because I did not like those 2 men but then your words shot through my head and I knew how easy it would have been and possible reasons why. I stand corrected!
In this life I am an activist and in my lesson period of dreams I got dinged on that too. Ugh. In this dream I am watching (a current elected official lets say) on stage ranting. In each hand he holds a light bulb connected to a wire attached to his body. Each time he says something bad about and individual or group the lightbulbs turn on and the current shocks his body. I am in crowd watching and pretty
Soon its like electrocuting himself. The crowd is happy to see this pattern because we are thinking, go ahead and remove yourself from office, just keep talking. Then my familiar male voice says while its understandable if you like or dislike someone, no one cheers watching someone in effect, self destruct. Then, to make it even clearer, as apparently its felt I always need extra 'encouragement' the scene abruptly changes and the exact crowd I am standing in is now in the arena watching gladiators fight to the death and cheering. Of course, no more male voice comments since clearly I am supposed to figure that one on my own.
The really amazing thing I learned from that other than feeling really weird is that thoughts carry form. So your intent has form. What you think you are doing for whatever your reasons are, you have to self check along the way. Its like personal integrity is so important, even in thoughts. There is never a chance given to defend my actions and say that was not what I meant as magically I wake up and have to think. It was a relentless month. So whomever on other side so concerned to show me things I am not aware of.. its also the message, if you strive to lead a life that is in anyway idealistic, you are accountable for not only what you do but how you come off, what you think privately. Its more than wearing the clothes of a cathar, its being aware and in check with yourself before you stand in judgement of anyone. Thoughts have form and even if someone is not for you, you have to keep in mind what is projected from you. It was difficult as I always thought my report card must be an F to the other side.. but someone sure wanted me to be self aware. I would not be lying if I said when that month of lesson dreams was o-v-e-r. By the sheer repitition of my 'lessons' it was clear there was no avoiding my flaws and the end result was Yes Kaye, we are referring to you. It was like in case I was deflecting in anyway, we have something else you need to know. Ugh, oh well.

 

[KenJ]

As usual, I share S&S's thoughts without his ability to express them, my feelings are that you Kaye are living the Cather beliefs now.

Edgar Casey said that thoughts were 'things' that remained and had to be dealt with.

 

[Kaye]

As usual, I share S&S's thoughts without his ability to express them, my feelings are that you Kaye are living the Cather beliefs now.

Edgar Casey said that thoughts were 'things' that remained and had to be dealt with.

At night, when my work day is done I find myself going over all the things that are written from each of you and its really having an effect on me. Its the wisdom that you are providing and helping me see certain things. Then these things are popping up in my head during the day. I dont know much about Edgar Cayce but now I have to look him up. What is so astounding to me is that these conversations we are having, I dont have with anyone else. As isolated this has been for me, all of a sudden not only are these things coming out, but more importantly I am learning so much. Here is something else thats transpired, I figured maybe I will just die early so sll of this happened and they need me to know them. But if its just because people are waiting for you on the other side, wouldnt they be waiting anyway? The interaction with all of you is making me look at things in a different way. You are definitely part of the process towards enlightenment. Its very, very unusual. Going from no discussions to your link popping up in my browser. Never been in a discussion group, never been on Facebook, or Twitter or anything. Brand new experience and somehow exactly what was needed. Wow, so unusual.

 

[KenJ]

Good to hear Kaye, I've felt (since my injury) that this lifetime was a test of some previous beliefs I've had - a test to see if I have truly understood. This is my main interest in this board even if it is somewhat secondary to the Bowman's intent perhaps. To me, you are being tested about your Good Woman/Good Christian beliefs although that is probably too simple.