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India - The time of the British take over

deborah

deborah

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I have a question for you history buffs- and for people living in India and or England.

Several family members and I remember clearly living during the time of the Bristish take over of India. For example; My brother as a small child would scream bloody murder if my parents made him wear short pants. In fact he would crouch down on the floor boards of my dads station wagon (1970's before seat belts) and cry. The connection seems to be that the Bristish wore short pants during the time period we lived in; he was horrified to have to wear them.

My mother and I were sisters; my father now was our father then; my daughter was one of my aunts and my sister was also an aunt. It's quite complicated really.

I could use some help finding information about this. Any suggestions?
 
Thee Phases

There seems to be three phases by the way. My feeling has been it was the First phase. But when did the British wear "shorts" or a short kind of pants?

ALTHOUGH the development of British power in India was a continuous process from the middle of the eighteenth to the middle of the nineteenth century, there were three main phases of expansion.

The first phase, which ended in 1765, was characterised by the establishment of British power in Bengal and the maintenance of Oudh as a buffer state.

The second great period of expansion is associated with the names of Cornwallis and Wellesley and may be considered as having lasted from 1786 to 1805.

The third phase of conscious expansion began about 1838 when Lord Auckland was Governor-General, continued through the Governor-Generalships of Ellenborough and Hardinge and reached its culmination in the time of Dalhousie just before the Indian mutiny.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Deborah,

I don't know an incredible amount about this subject but I do know that the 'caricature' if you like, of British colonialism in India was 'a white man in shorts'. The tradition was carried on through our early golfing traditions strangely enough and, as in India, men would only be permitted to wear shorts if they also wore knee-length socks.

There is a sculpted granite frieze on a building in London called "Allegory of India" and it shows the British men wearing shorts and socks.
http://www.victorianweb.org/sculpture/thornycroft/hamo19.html

Sorry I haven't more to add at the moment. I can see clearly the classic image of British colonialism in India in my mind but I just can't find any decent images on the net!

Hope that helps a little for now. It sounds like a fascinating past life to explore, especially with so many family members involved.
 
Thank you SO MUCH!

HI Klarry,

Thank you so much for providing that image for me. I have had a hard time understanding "men in shorts" -a hundred or even two hundred years ago. I wonder now - how far back the tradition goes? Fascinating and always so exciting to find out - that the memories match the history. :)

I really am clueless about Indian history - even though I lived there. I died at about age 17-19 from a terrible illness. If I can pin point the time period - I am sure I can find out who I was, because my father (then and now) and his brother then (My brother now) were rulers in India. One sided with the British, the other with Older Indian traditions. We lived in a palace. So I imagine - there is some recorded history about a young girl -who died in the palace from an illness and whose father and uncle took different points of view for the future of India.

Like I said. Any help with this is appreciated. :)
 
Deborah,

Three times this week - the last being a few minutes ago - I have seen references to a man I had not heard of before, named Warren Hastings. I do not think this is a coincidence, and I feel the period he was involved in India might be of use to you.

Hastings reference

And, another website giving the Indian point of view to the history of the period, with illustrations:

East India Company/Oudh,etc.
 
Robert Clive

Deborah, I suggest looking into the times of Robert Clive in India which preceded the arrival of Warren Hastings. You can start here.

Deborah, can you dig deeper into you 'own archives' and give us more clues, e.g. rough time or place? By place I mean more like a region. During the period that Brits were making inroads, most important rulers were muslims, except for Marathas (i.e. the Peshwas) in western and central India, a sikh kingdom in Punjab, a hindu kingdom in Nepal. Most of the Rajput princes were not independent at that time. Prominent cultural divides of the time would be Punjab region, Rajputana, Maratha enclave, Bengal, Mughal region (Delhi, Agra, Lucknow and most of North India) and the southern Indian kingdom of Haider Ali / Tipoo Sultan.
 
*s*s*s*s

Wow! Thank you for so much information.

Kris -I feel it was in the mid 1700's. It seems to me to be on the Coast --- near the East Coast.

Looking back into my notes from 1993 -I noted Bengal (desh). I also wrote Rahhiem, Rahshii, and Rashmi that at the time I felt were names (SP?). I really haven't thought about this life much. It's been a while, but something is nagging at me to revisit it. What is a Rajput prince?

I was very protected. I remember being sheltered from the outside world. Which makes for a problem locating world events that match. I remember the palace, the beautiful silk clothing, the jewelry. Learning to dance, and hand movements. Typical protected young woman. :(

I remember my father and Uncle arguing about the politics of the time. And knowing it had to do with the British. But I was not allowed to be present during indepth discussions or any form of decision making. At an early age though - my sister and I would hide under the table covered by a cloth and try to hear what they were talking about. But giggles usually gave way to the hiding place and we were removed from the area. LOLOLOL

I did sneak out of the palace in my later teens - (Gad was I a handful) to see how the rest of our country lived. Against the wishes of my Aunt and Father. I contracted an illness that caused my death. I feel like no big war had happened in my life time, at least not yet.

My mother however remembers the wars -she lived a much longer life than I did. She was my sister at that time. The destruction she said - tore at her heart, and devastated the family.

My father then sided with the Old Indian ways. His brother -(MY Uncle) sided with the British, and approved of working with them.
 
Hi Deborah,

I've been trying to research a little based on your last post and I've come up with the following. I may be completely off the mark but thought I'd let you know anyway so you can at least eliminate it. (Sorry if I'm repeating anything you've found out from the other links posted here).

You said that you felt your this life was around the 1750's and that you don't remember any wars but your sister did following your death. This is interesting and could be quite important in dating your death. As you know, British involvement in India during the 18th century can be divided into two phases, one ending and the other beginning at mid-century. In the first half of the century, the British were a trading presence at certain points along the coast (and you said you felt you lived near the coast) but from the 1750s they began to wage war on land in eastern and south-eastern India. In particular, following the warfare, they began to exercise their political power notably over the rich province of Bengal (another place you specifically mentioned). Might it be that you died prior to the 1750's - before the warfare began?

As for trying to pinpoint exactly who your ruling family was...I found out that the rulers of Bengal in the 18th century were known as the nawabs of Bengal and that they were in power when Bengal came into conflict with the British and took possession of the nawabs' realm in 1757–64. Bengal was thenceforth the base for British expansion in India.

Apparently, a gentleman called Siraj Ud Daullah was the last independent Nawab of Bengal. In 1757 AD a conspiracy between the Company and his uncle Mir Jafar led to defeat of his forces by the Company troops in the battle of Plassy. He was later murdered in Murshidabad. Mir Jafar, who betrayed Siraj became the new puppet Nawab. Might this be the father/uncle rivalry you remember? I have attached a pic of Siraj Ud Daullah.

So far that's all I've got but I'll see if I can find anything else. Hope some of that made sense! :)siraj ud daullah.jpg
 
The main thing which may negate this as a possibility is Siraj-Ud-Daullah's age. I've just read that apparently he was in his early twenties when he died and although he was indeed married, it obviously limits the possibility of him having time to produce a couple of daughters. It seems that when he died he had a four year old daughter. :confused:

The history of his family is fascinating though. His grandfather Alivardi Khan was Nawab of Bengal from 1740-56 and wasn't happy with the English at all. He's the one who made Siraj-Ud-Daullah promise to do all he could to fight them. Interesting enough, Alivardi had 3 daughters. There seems to be a lot of information about two of them - Amina Begum (Siraj's mother) and Ghaseti Begum but there is nothing about the third daughter.....did she die young I wonder?

It is also interesting to note (whilst I'm stepping back a generation), that the man who betrayed Siraj (and therefore, betrayed the wishes of Alivardi) was Mir Jafar (the husband of Alivardi's sister). Therefore, to any daughter of Alivardi - her father would have been loyal to India and indeed, her uncle would have been more allied to the English.

Yikes - sorry, I'm getting all wrapped up and tangled in this story and it may be the wrong one altogether!! I'm going to shut up now!!
;)
 
((((((((((Klarry)))))))))))))

Thank you so much for looking into this in such depth! WOW!
It is so helpful to have objective eyes viewing the information. I also think you are on the right track. :)

Now I will have to look into the three daughters of Alivardi. I am also going to send this information to my mother and see if she has anything I might have missed. Perhaps she has some things written down that may help pin point the situation. I hope so.

Please - if you come across anything else...do let me know. I so appreciate it! Working 12 hour days leaves little time for research.
 
:( I kept meaning to look into this too but I have a mind like a seive. Thankfully others have come to your aid. Good luck Deborah it sounds like you have some very promising leads here.
Regards,
Hammy.
 
I'm lifting an old thread up, because it was so interesting.

Deborah, have you had the time/luck to research further this Indian life?

I tried to look for Indian rulers because of this thread, and while doing it I realized that I'm fascinated by Sikhism. I have always thought I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't have any past lives in Asia, but now I remember that for no known reason, when I lived in England, I always felt very warm when I saw Sikh men.

Karoliina
 
HI Karolina,

I have not gone past what is in this thread. I have been researching two other past lives currently for evidence. Life seems to have swept me away this summer. I am working on it though. Let me know if you find anything. It is very confusing to research on the internet. I should look for personal accounts in India of the time period. I seem to have more luck that way.
 
Hi Deborah, I hope you don't mind, I found this information on the three daughters of Alivardi. It seems they all married and had children.
I got the information from here:
http://en.banglapedia.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

Ghaseti Begum alias Mihrunnisa was the eldest of the three daughters of Nawab alivardi khan. The nawab got them married to the three sons of his elder brother Haji Ahmed. Ghaseti was married to nawazish muhammad Shahmat Jang who was appointed naib nazim of Dhaka. This beloved and domineering eldest daughter of Alivardi had used her position of influence to amass vast fortunes. Childless Nawazish and Ghaseti had adopted lkramuddaula, the younger brother of sirajuddaula. The prince died of smallpox and Nawazish survived him but a few days. Ghaseti inherited the vast wealth of her husband which, along with her earlier accumulated fortune, she stored in the motijheel palace, which was heavily guarded by her trusted troops. rajballabh, who had considerable influence on Ghaseti Begum, efficiently managed the financial administration of Dhaka.

Meanwhile the aging nawab had nominated Sirajuddaula, the son of his youngest daughter, as the heir. Ghaseti conspired against the nomination and tried to place shawkat jang, the son of her second sister, on the throne instead. Siraj, however, ascended the masnad after his grandfather and almost immediately took steps against Ghaseti, whom he placed in confinement. Sirajuddaula also demanded a statement of the Dhaka treasury from Rajballabh who failed to send a correct statement. His son Krishnaballabh took shelter in the east india company's fort william in Calcutta. The nawab sent a letter to Roger drake, the English governor of Calcutta, asking him to hand over Krishnaballabh to him.

mir jafar, the chief of Alivardi's army, also felt uneasy at the accession of Sirajuddaula. Ghaseti leagued herself secretly with Mir Jafar. She distributed money lavishly wherever she thought it would be effectual against Siraj. jagat sheth and umichand, the merchants, also joined hands with Ghaseti and Mir Jafar. The common aim of these conspirators was to remove Sirajuddaula. After the battle of palashi, Sirajuddaula was murdered and Mir Jafar made nawab by the British. Mir Jafar first imprisoned Ghaseti along with amina begum, the mother of the fallen nawab, in Murshidabad. Thereafter they were shifted to Dhaka and interned in the jinjira palace. Miran, son of Mir Jafar, considered Ghaseti a dangerous enemy even in prison. Ghaseti and Amina Begum were ordered by Miran to be shifted to Murshidabad. It is said that they were drowned in the Buriganga. [Shahriyar ZR Iqbal]



Amina Begum mother of sirajuddaula, was the youngest daughter of Nawab alivardi khan. She was married to Haji Ahmed's youngest son zainuddin ahmad khan. Sirajuddaula and Mirza Mehdi Ikramuddaula were their two sons. When Zainuddin, naib nazim of Patna, was killed by the rebel Afghan leaders Amina Begum was made captive. Alivardi Khan led an expedition against the Afghans and rescued her from captivity.

Unlike her elder sister ghaseti begum, Amina Begum was not known so much politically. She had very little control over the frivolous and immature Nawab Sirajuddaulah. After the battle of palashi (1757), mir jafar and his son Miran behaved ruthlessly with Sirajuddaula and the surviving members of his family. Mir Jafar imprisoned Siraj's widow lutfunnisa begum, his four-year-old daughter, his mother Amina Begum, late Nawab Alivardi's widow Sharifunnisa and many other dignified ladies. Alivardi's eldest daughter Ghaseti Begum, who had helped Mir Jafar with immense wealth, was also not spared.

All these ladies were put on a boat and sent to Jahangirnagar (Dhaka) where they were imprisoned (1758). In 1760 Miran sent one of his followers to Jahangirnagar and instructed him to bring some of them to murshidabad. The boat on which they were travelling was treacherously sunk in the river buriganga at Miran's instigation. All, including Amina Begum, were drowned and had a watery grave. [KM Karim]


I can't find the name of the second daughter, but she married her cousin Sayed Ahmed Khan, and they had at least one child, a son called Shawkat Jang.

I hope this is helpful.
take care
BessieA
 
Wow! I am so impressed with the results that you have received. This is so interesting and I have enjoyed reading all of it. This is just amazing! :thumbsup:
 
Yes, Deborah, searching the Internet is sometimes very frustrating as the information is so scattered. Visiting a library with a good history department would probably be a good idea, but it takes so much more time than browsing the web.

I read some information from the http://banglapedia.search.com.bd/HT/S_0411.HTM about Sirajuddaula, and even though he didn't have brothers, he did have cousins. Maybe your "uncle" was some other relative?

When you have time, try to find out whether the time frame and the area are correct. Then it would be easier to look for information. But this is a fascinating topic, as most of our (this forum's members') PL's seem to be located in Europe or North America. So please keep us posted Deborah, and if some other members find relevant info, let us know!

Karoliina
 
Vision of the "Black Hole of Calcutta"

"In 1756, Siraj-ud-daulah, the Nawab of Bengal, occupied Fort William and Calcutta, then the principal possession of the East India Company. 146 people are said to have been imprisoned, at the orders of the Nawab, in a small and airless dungeon at Fort William. Next morning, when the door was opened, 123 of the prisoners had died."

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/History/British/Blackh.html


I believe I had a short lifetime as a youthful British soldier who met an early demise, and I seem to recall this in a sort of vision of the "Black Hole of Calcutta".
:butbut:

Siraj-ud-daulah

has a link on the above link:

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/History/British/Siraj.html
 
I am wondering if any members have past life memories of India - during one of the three phases I listed at the beginning of this thread?

My PL experiences of India began in 1987. Twenty years ago. My mother and I share many past life memories..one of the most clear and new to both of us at the time, was in India as sisters. In 1987 the following happened:

We were at a mediation retreat and we were sitting across from each other in a big room meditating. Suddenly I was OB and so was she. Our physical forms changed. I was a little Indian girl and so was she. We met OBE in the middle of the meditation room.

Our reality had shifted and suddenly we were back in another time and place -in India holding hands and swinging in a circle and then dancing. We both laughed and giggled. There was such joy in the experience I cannot put it into words. We lived in a palace, our father was very important. We often hid under a near by table in the entry way to spy on the adults as they talked about national affairs. But our giggling always gave us away.

When the group was done meditating the look on my face and my moms said volumes.

My mother met with a few of her friends and began telling them what she had experienced. I met with a friend and began telling him mine. When we finally got to talk about our experience -- they matched! Those who had heard us tell it before we shared with each other were amazed. So were we.: angel :D :laugh:

Sharing an experience with another brings past lives to a whole new level of awareness - it becomes much more 'real.'

I am curious if any members have memories of India?
 
I remember at least two lives in India. One was during the Mughal period. I remember very little of that life, but I do remember standing in a large open field, watching a huge army advance towards me. What really struck me about that memory is the armored elephants the army used, it was something so totally foreign to me that I thought I may have imagined it. Later, I researched the topic and was surprised to find that my memory was very accurate.​

As for the other life in India that I remember, I have no idea when it took place. I was a young girl with an arranged marriage. At the time, I was quite unhappy with my parents' decision, I even begged them to call it off. But in the end, it turned out to be a very happy and loving relationship. I really have an affinity for Indian culture in this life, so it wouldn't surprise me if I've lived there more than twice.​
 
Thank you for sharing Crystal_44. Very interesting about the armored Elephants. :)
 
I think my PL as an English male in the 1800's was heavily influenced by colonialism - as a child and later as an adult, too. I think my family were all colonialists. I have memories of Africa, but today I remembered something new.


As a child I spent some time in India. There was some relative living in there - I think an uncle, but he was pretty old, so possibly a grand uncle? We maybe visited him with my parents, but I have a feeling I was sent there alone or with my siblings for some time. I remember mostly the house and this uncle, who was a little odd or funny in the eyes of a young boy. There was also a beautiful garden.


An Indian man, who worked for my uncle was my idol. I think he was a Sikh. He wore a turban and a cool sabre on his belt. I think I became friends with his son and started imitating their Sikh ways, which later shocked my parents. :D


I saw myself wearing shorts and found it odd - but reading this thread maybe it wasn't so strange after all. :thumbsup:


Karoliina
 
I did some Rieki with a good friend of mine right before my wedding last Friday. I saw flashes of a few life times I have been aware of - new scenes - short but intense. The one that stuck with me for days now is that my husband was the young man I left the palace to go see, whom I was very in love with.


It was a new awareness because I have not been able to place our deep love in the past. I will have to do some meditations round this, since the Rieki was for healing purposes. I have a feeling there is a lot to experience since I died young due to an illness I picked up by leaving the palace to see a young man I was forbidden to see. : angel
 
Deborah said:
Looking back into my notes from 1993 -I noted Bengal (desh). I also wrote Rahhiem, Rahshii, and Rashmi that at the time I felt were names (SP?).
Click to expand...
(Boldface mine)


Rashmi is a female name. One of my customers is named Rashmi Beedubail. She is from India.
 
Thank you shiftkitty. Very nice to know, I have never heard the name myself...only in meditations. :D
 
My indian memories are fairly indistinct but powerful...a sense of deep love and a sense of longing, a true appreciation and familiarity with the countryside. When I was there (Bombay, New Delhi and Delhi) I felt very comfortable, despite the massive density of humanity. I had a sense of achievement...even certain scenes of "Slum Dog Millionaire" were familiar...although the dancing at the end was silly.


My one pl meditation in India I was as a young low level clerk bleeding to death having just saved a little girl...it was a slightly frustrating life...I was seeking to get ahead somehow and just as an opportunity arose I sacrificed myself, more from reflex than anything (it seems), while pushing her out of the way and whatever it was sliced me.
 
I don't think I've ever had any PL memories of India, but during my entrance into my meditative state, a scene in India always occurs, and it's right before I enter my deep states:


A wealthy Indian woman, pale skinned, has murdered her abusive husband. She has dismembered him and disposed of arms, legs, hands, feet, and head easily enough, but his torso is big. She is alone and staring at the torso, which is wrapped in a very expensive carpet. She had given the servants the day off today, having killed him earlier that morning and kept it hidden from them. The plan is simple. Dispose of body and blade, and when the servants come back, say that he went somewhere with some friends that she had never met before.


Her personal servant is a trusted friend and would help her dispose of the torso, but she does not want anyone else to know about this crime. The fewer eyes that see and ears that hear, the better. To dispose of the body in the river could invite later discovery, as would burying it in the garden. The other parts were small and went into the jungle easily enough to be picked apart by scavengers. But the torso is too big. It may take her all day, but that's why she gave the servants the day off. No witnesses, and no visitors expected. Her plan is to drag the torso down to the kitchens and cut it up and feed it to the dogs, grinding the bones up and scattering them in the garden.


I get the distinct feeling from this vision that she got away with it. It doesn't feel like a PL, but it's always there when I meditate.
 
OK being an Indian, I can tell you one thing. The period that you are talking about-it had thousands of kings and queen, many of whose mention you would not find in any of the books/internet. So to come to conclusion as to which king this could be is going to be difficult. But it would be easier if you would remember the place name OR the kind of attire you wore OR kind of culture you had(It differs from region to region and it used to differ even then)


Interestingly I have only regressed to one Indian life so far, mostly all my lives I have regressed were either in south america or north america.
 
Hey and just realized that the names you mentioned, Rashmi and Rashi is Hindu Indian names and Rahim is a Indian Muslim name and owing to the religion-ism then, it seems very unlikely that both the religion people exist in the same family. Of course it is not impossible. But it would be very rare and it narrows down the list of possible king you are looking for.
 
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