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Chapter #7 - Facing Abortion

deborah

deborah

Director Emerita
Staff member
Super Moderator
Hi,

I was personally moved by a chapter in Carol's new book. First, I want to thank Carol -- for her research, and for her wonderful way of expressing in her book -- the possibilities. I just finished reading it yesterday evening, and I cried. The following is why.

As I read slowly each chapter, critically thinking through each point; I eventually thought about my own grandsons. I began to wonder more and more what my oldest grandson Christian meant each time I see him when he tells me I am his mommy. When he points to my daughter and says ONE MOMMY and then me and says TWO MOMMYs. Each time I tell him, no, I am your grandma. He tells me YES, mommy.

I ask him every time -- when was this. He just smiles at me like I should know and runs off to play. Much to my frustration.

My son Daniel who is now 16, has heard this many times from Christian and not said a word. I thought I would open up the discussion regarding the possibilities that I might have been Christians mom in a past life with Daniel..... The response I got was not what I expected!

In Carols' first book, she points out that mother's and their children can trigger each other without a word said. I did not mention the chapter in her book on abortions, only a few stories about reincarnation in general with him. Besides, I hadn't gotten to that chapter yet!!!

Daniel was in the kitchen, as I spoke to him about the possibilities, he turned to me and said without any hesitation. "NO mom, when you had an abortion." I never told Daniel I had one.....ever!

Well, this hit me like a ton of Bricks!!!! I had two abortions as a very young mother going through very tough times. My second abortion I have always felt was Daniel..six months later I was pregnant again and I knew it was him. I knew it, I felt it and I never gave another thought to the first one.

The next day I read the chapter on abortions. I cried. What Christian was telling me -- now makes sense. I was supposed to be his mommy. It brings joy to my heart to know that Christian is with me now, that he did return ....as my grandson.

I am sharing a part of my soul here. So be kind people.

Thank you Carol..for writing about such things.
 
Hi Deborah

Well I personally can’t begin to imagine the feelings and thoughts that must have raced around your head at this emotional clanger of a discovery ….it is also one of the most synchrontic things I have seen for a long while - the discovery through Daniels words about Christian just before reading the Chapter in Carol's book dealing directly with this subject matter, must have been an unexpected roller coaster of emotions, and I can imagine that the emotional effect hit home a lot more forceful than what it would have, if say a few more weeks had passed.

I have to say the whole book had me on a very emotional tangent, and a lot of the stories drew me to tears, particularly the case of Kathy's with James and Chad and the cases used in the chapter you are referring to. Not being a mother presently and never having experienced the tough choices and decisions that these cases showed, I found that the chapter made me question the evidence even further, but even then my “unknowns” led me to realise that this was something I couldn't ever imagine in full depth without the experience that some other mothers and parents out there have experienced and battled alone with for many years, and so in truth - I can't begin to understand the depth of the thoughts, feelings and emotions that must have struck you when you was reading that chapter.

I must say the book was definitely one for pulling on every string you've got, and it presented a multitude of possibilities for validating Same Family Reincarnation.
 
I think you are brave and sweet Deborah. It's amazing how the whole story unfolded. The possibilities boggle my mind! I'll have to pick up the new book :)

Szo
 
Deborah,

My heart goes out to you!

A couple of things to relate:

When I was in a musical a few years ago, one of my fellow cast members was telling us one day about a friend of her daughter's. She said that he would often call her "Mom" and whenever he did that, it was like she was struck. She told us that she was told by a psychic later on that he would have been the child she had aborted.

As I said before, I am adopted, however before adopting me, my parents attempted to have biological children. Now, my friend Bill has on occasion called my mother "Mom," and she says that when he has done that, she gets a very, very strong feeling. She told me that she wonders if he had been perhaps the child she had miscarried. (Interesting note: my mother had announced, when she was a young girl, that when she grew up, she would adopt.)

Much love to you,

DJ
 
Hi Deborah,

In my family we've also been together in some way or another; I had been son of the same mother three times. I mean four, because there was a would-be, an abortion one year before my incarnation. I am thankful she aborted me, or I'd be one year older! :)
As you can see, destiny arranges things the best way possible, your grandson loves you as a mother, so he was gifted with the gentleness of two mothers. A lucky tot.

Best wishes!
 
Thank You all for your kind words.

It would have been very easy for me to post about a life time I know I had with Christian, around 30AD when he was my husband. This was a lot harder!!! I posted it with the hopes of discussing the possibilites and the new book with others.

When my daughter gave birth to him in October of 1996, I was there for the delivery, and I was the first one to hold him! Dad was not feeling to well --LOLOL

It was wonderful really - he looked into my eyes, and I looked into his and instantly I knew when, where, and who he had been to me. A beautiful vision, a beautiful moment indeed.

The realization that people are with us today who have been with us before is a beautiful reflection. I call them soul moments. But abortion is such a touchy issue. I know I feel a lot better about my choices now. I felt a lot better when Daniel my son was born 16 years ago and I knew he was back!

Carol's chapter on abortion is beautifully written, and reflects a lot of research that in my opinion helps -- heal the soul. Both the child's and the mothers -- believe it or not!

Another aspect in the book talks about the spirit of the child not being bound to the body until birth or close to it. This also hit home as a truth for me, for I have been able to see children floating above their mothers and some actually walking behind them on occasion.

Also it is quite a thrill to be in a grocery store and all of a sudden hear --It's a boy! -- when I turn around, sure enough -- there's a pregnant lady and when I ask what she's having ...the voice has never been wrong.

I wonder if it's the child announcing what they will be?
 
Hello to all-

I wanted to share a story with you...

My sister and her four year old son were driving to his daycare in the morning. Along the side of the road on a hill was a display of small white crosses that had been posted for rememberence and protest of aborted babies. My sister thought about her past...

At 15 years old she was too young to take care of herself, let alone a baby...

She was painfully remembering all of this when her four year old son said, "Mommy, I miss my brother in heaven."


Now, at this time, she had not, and would never discuss this painful truth with such a small child, and she was not only touched, but truly and completely struck with wonderment at his ability to speak to her thoughts. At this time they had two children, my four year old nephew, and a 1 year old daughter. That was all the children they were planning to have...

3 years later, she gave birth again, to a son.


Peace, Health, and Happiness Are,

Lastearthling
 
Thank you, all, for sharing your stories. This is exactly what this Forum is for. And I appreciate how it isn't easy to talk about such private moments.

Carol and I are glad to see that the cases and stories we had been living and working with for two years are finally being read by other people. And that they're having the effect we were really going for--triggering personal memories and realizations and understanding. When that happens, the proof issue that we also struggle with is almost irrelvant.

Steve
 
HI Lastearthling

Thanks for sharing :) That was quite a beautiful experience I can imagine...as Kathy said, it's amazing how much our children know and can teach us, it's a shame that so many sometimes so idly put it down to "imagination".

Thanks Again
Kelly
 
I just finished Return From Heaven. I loved the book! Prior to reading the book, my husband and I had discussed the possibility of my 2 year old granddaughter could be one of the 2 children I aborted prior to our marriage. (he was still married at that time). Kayla bonded to us so quickly and has on occasion called me "Mommy". I will continue to watch and listen to see if this is a possibility.

I am almost certain she had a pastlife as a Scottish piper due to her obsession and affinity for the "pipes" as I described in the forum a few months ago.
 
Hi Charlene,

For me, there is a very odd inner sensation to realize that this is indeed possible! I am very thankful for the opportunity to know that my grandson has come to our family -- by way of another route! I giggle inside every time I hear him call me mommy now, but always tell him..I am your grandmother now Christian. Helps him to ground in the here and NOW.

I remember you story, and your granddaughter sounds a lot like my grandson....so aware, Not to mention her interests! Blows me away to think what children know, and they take it all in stride as part of life!

DO keep us informed as your granddaughter grows and expresses more to you. I love it when the truth comes right out of the mouths of babes!
 
HI,

I went to visit my grandson yesterday. I hadn't seen him in over a month. I drove up in the driveway, and as I got out of the car, Christian opened the front door, got such excitement in his voice and yelled out..."Mommies here!"

He is 4 and a half. Speaks Spanish and English. All I could do was hug him, Thank God for him and then hug him with "my heart."
 
This is not regarding abortion, but this thread got me remembering this:

I'd always pictured myself having a little girl, until a few years ago, I had a little boy in my class. I would be sitting on my chair reading to the class, and he would simply get up out of his seat, come put his arms around me, plant a kiss on my cheek, and go sit down. Whenever he did that, he filled me. Does that make any sense??? At home/in private, I referred to him as "my baby" and he also managed to steal my mother's heart whenever she helped me out in class.

One day we were sitting in chapel. He sat beside me because he was active. He asked me out of the blue, "Are you married?" I said no. He asked me "Why not?" and I said, "I haven't found the right man yet." He said again, only in an extremely whiny and bitter tone, "Why not??!!!" It seemed as if he had a stake in this. It broke my heart. A while later, I revealed to my mom that I felt as if he had considered me for his mother; she felt the same thing.

Love'n'light,
DJ
 
Deborah,

Thanks for letting me know about this thread on the other thread in 'spirit community.'. LOL...

I have just recieved Carol's book in the mail yesterday and plan to start reading it tonight. I didn't even realize this thread was over here when I shared my own experience on the other post.

Needless to say I can relate and thank you for letting me know I wasn't alone. Your story is truly an ispiration to what I have always felt about my own kids! :)

Bless you all!
Julie
 
I know this thread is a few weeks old. I haven't actually visited this board before. I am buying Return From Heaven tommorrow (pay day ;) )

Deborah, you really are a brave and wonderful person. Thanks for sharing such an intimate story. I found it very inspiring.

Love,
Rob
 
Thank You for sharing your life.
Sometimes you can touch another without knowing. Reading about your lives is wonderful. I am not so empty by losing my child -- maybe I will see him in this life --otherwise another lifetime.
 
I am so confused, I have always believed very strongly in reincarnation, but I have also been pro-choice for my entire life. I never thought before that a soul existed in the body of a fetus, regardless of whether there was biological life or not, I never thought there was a soul inside the body of a fetus until very late stages of pregnancy. Now it appears I have been wrong, and that there is, because these children remember the abortions so clearly....Can anyone help me sort this out in my own mind? For those of you who believe in reincarnation and who have had abortions, how do you think of the situation? Do you consider abortion killing a child (although obviously it does not kill the soul)????

Please let me know what you think.
Blessed Be
Phoenix
 
What a topic! It has been a long time since I have shared this with anybody, at least to the extent that I am about to!

I also, have had 2 abortions. The first was when I was 17 and with a VERY abusive man, the 2nd was when I was 20 and with my husband before we were married!

I have ALWAYS had guilt and resentment for what I did! The pain of it came around full force when my first child was born! I remember thinking as I looked in her eyes, "Was it you"? Her little face looked up into mine and I knew the answer was "Yes"!

Right after they (the abortions) happend, I did(and still do at times) feel like I killed someone! They were NOT just "tissue", they were miniature PEOPLE and yes, they had souls! I struggled for a long time with that!

For many years, I wondered if I would ever be "forgiven" for what I did! When my husband and I were trying to get pregnant, I ran into many fertility problems. I had cervical cancer, and miscarriages and many other problems. But I did finally have a baby girl, and I knew that at least she had finally decided to give me another chance!

Then after the birth of my second child, I felt grateful that I was trusted enough to carry yet another pregnancy to term!

I think I will always feel guilt over what I did. But my children now have helped me to "get over" it the best I can. Thank God they decided to give me another chance!

Tammy
 
First, hats off to Deborah for her bravery in relating her story to us.
Second to Phoenix & Tamera, I think these children don't remember the abortions so much as they remember that they were going to have this particular mother and that the intended body was for them. I think these children are still in spirit form along with their guides who do not let them enter the body until it is a sure thing. I could be way off base but my guts feel this intensely.

I think anti-abortionists are way out of line. I never have seen one instance where they adopt this fetus or offer to take the expectant mother into their home, feed, clothe, educate, etc. this mother and her child. They are sick to choose such a way to put guilt trips on these women's already tortured minds. I've always wondered if there could be a group to counsel these women in a forum such as this. The guilt won't go away completely from the mother's perspective but it would be so altruistic to offer these pregnant women a chance to talk to folks like us and let them know the high possibility of this child returning to them again. These children seem to understand and are very forgiving; that it was just the wrong time and circumstances and they wait for better circumstances to reincarnate within their selected relatives they "contracted" for. These children I have read about here who know they were aborted and many other books I've read claim the children are content with how it all was resolved and are happy to be with their relatives.

Annabel
 
Thanks to Tamera and Annabel for sharing. I still have a lot to think about but I really appreciate both your insights.
Phoenix
 
HI,

Annabel, that was a very sweet reflection and a very compassionate thing to think of regarding women who are or have had abortions. I was seventeen when I had my first daughter..because I would not have an abortion. I was 19 when I had my second child for the same reason.

It was during my relationship with my second husband (and like you Tammy both were abusive situations) I became pregnant again at 20 and again at 24. I wasn't married, and I was struggling to support two daughters. SSiiiiggggghhhhhhh It was a very difficult time in my life, and I could only wish for someone to be so supportive, understanding, and compassionate toward me.

Instead I was confronted with anti-abortionists at the door...and I cried for a VERY long time. My heart still cries sometimes..but I have grown, and I know..they both are back..as my grandson and my son Daniel and things are ...as they should be.
 
Deborah, Thank you so much for guiding me to this thread. It has helped so much! I thought I would post the rest of my experience and dreams here rather than interrupt the other thread, as it may take me some extra space and time to sort through all of it and how it has all come to make so much sense to me now. Also, maybe there are other newer members who may again benefit from this thread.

There are a number of things concerning my experience with the abortion that I didn't quite understand back then, but they have all tied in together and become much clearer recently as I have done more serious work on dealing with my past lives and their affect on my present life.

I was in a very strange, difficult relationship at the time with a man who I knew and felt such a deep connection to that at the young age of twenty, I naturally assumed that he must be my soul mate... why else would there be such a strong connection? I had dreams and vague memories back then of a life experience with him in the past, but rather than question it, or try to figure out if there was any other connection. There were serious problems with the whole relationship, and we spent years at each other's throats, yet unable to break the connection. I was going through a very wild rebellious streak, insistant and determined to experience everything, and everyone...expecting him to always be there to pick up the pieces, be there for me no matter what I did. He wasn't much older than me, but continually treated me like a child, someone who needed to be taken care, that I would eventually settle down and become what he expected of me. When I got pregnant, and wasn't sure it was his, I went into a nose dive of a desperate panic. I was alone with no family, in a foriegn country with only a few friends to go to for advice. My one and only thought at the time was that for what ever reasons, I just could not cope with, deal with or handle this pregnancy. I felt as though by having this child, I would be destroying all of our lives. There was also no way that I could tell him, explain every thing to him, He lived in a very black and white, right or wrong, yes or no world back then... there were no grey areas for him.

I made the choice to have the abortion without telling him anything about it, and made a vow that if I could get through it, I would go back and be everything he needed and wanted me to be. Anyway, the whole experience was a horror story...because I had become pregnant while on outdated, expired, non effective birth control pills, and the military in their attempt to somehow correct their own error, offered the option of an abortion in a neighboring country. They also failed to correctly or accurately determine exactly how far along I was, and in their haste to rectify the situation, they set up an immediate appointment for me allowing no time for counseling or explanations of any sort. My friend and I arrived at the clinic to find that the staff there spoke very little English, their translator was on vacation... making for extremely limited communication between us. They prepared me for the procedure, and going by the information they had recieved from my military doctors, they did not do a pre-exam. I had never had ansethesia before so was unprepared and unware that it would not quite have the desired affects on me. As a result, I went into the procedure half awake, being able to hear everything that was going on, being able to feel much of it, but being unable to respond or voice what was wrong. It was during that horrific nightmarish Gods Awful experience that I had to lay there listen to them determine that I was much further along than originally thought, that the fetus was a little girl...Afterwards when they wheeled me back to the recovery area and I was in such total agonizing emotional and physical pain and shock...and then the ansethesia finally kicked in completely. I woke up the next day to a doctor apologizing profusely for everything that had gone wrong. He had no idea of just all that seemingly gone wrong! The guilt and hurt and pain I felt for I had done. I knew that that little girl was my boyfriend's... the child that he wanted of his own so deperately.

I tried so hard to find a way to make up for what I had taken from him, kept from him, but in the end, nothing I did could stop him from finding his own soulmate shortly after the experience. He didn't know about the pregancy, the abortion, and the next month he broke up with me in order to be with someone he thought was his true soulmate.
 
Part Two....

I went through months of trying to put my own life back together without him, or that child. The very next year at the exact same time, I had a very short, no strings attatched relationship with a friend and became pregnant again.. probably, possibly, subconciously maybe because of my daughter's insistance on coming into the world to join me on this journey together. From the moment I became pregnant with her, I had the feeling that everything was right, and that she was suppose to be with me. That we could do this this time! I think she chose the father, knowing that he would choose not to be involved at all, that it truly would be the two of us. In fact when she was small, she used to make comments about it when my son was born. She made the comment to me one day, "But, Mommy, it was supposed to be just us this time, I was suppose to be the only one!"

Over the years, I maintained an on and off relationship with my earlier boyfriend, neither of us ever seeming to be able to completely severe the ties. At one point I told him about the abortion, he seemed to accept it, but there was an unspoken agreement to just not speak of it any more. It was after all in the past, there was nothing to be gained from dwelling on it. Eventually, we went our seperate ways, I think it was our way of dealing with the hurt the pain, internalizing it, keeping it buried from ourselves and each other. He also had other griefs and his own personal guilts and demons to deal with, including the death of that soulmate that he left me for.

Over the last year, I have begun to research all of the reincarnation seriously, because I knew in my heart there were things that I needed to learn from those dreams and memories. I met a wonderful man who I realized is that one true soulmate, twin flame linked and connected to me through so many lives. And, while he has only vague memories of our pasts together, he understands and knows how important it is for me to figure this all out.

A few months ago, I had dreams once again about that past life experience with my previous boyfriend. Only the dreams were becoming a little clearer now and I began to understand what happened. In that past life in Spain, he was not my soulmate, but my older brother intent on protecting me, sheltering me, controlling me. I was stubborn, wild, rebellious then too, and determined to have my own life with the man I loved, who is the man in my life now. My dreams were always of riding on horseback through the night, being on a ship about to sail... being pulled from the ship in the middle of a fight by someone I loved and cared about... I always assumed that was my previous boyfriend. But, what my more recent dreams showed me was that yes, while it was him, and I did love him, care about him, he was my brother, he started the whole fight on the ship and dragged me off to the shore, held on to me tightly to keep me from running back. What I also knew in these dreams now, was that I was pregnant at the time. But then the dreams faded so I was never sure what happened.

Last month, my previous boyfriend called me out of the blue, after not being in touch for years. He talked casually for a while, said he was just wondering how I was... I had the feeling something else was bothering him and asked why he was really calling after all these years? He said he kept having these strange dreams about me, about the past. I asked him what he was talking about and he said not to think he was nuts or anything but, he thought it was about something in a past life. Now, he has never been one to believe in it, I never said anything about it, or about dreams to him because he thought "those" people were all a bunch of flakes. I could tell he was really bothered and un-nerved so I reassured him that I wouldn't laugh, or think he had gone off the deep end. I just asked him to tell me about the dreams. What he described was almost exactly what I had experienced, and by the end he was crying on the phone and said something that made little sense at the time. He said,"Why didn't you tell me? If I had known about the baby, I would have let you go!" I thought at first he was talking about now, about my fears that he would trap me in a marriage or relationship just because of a baby. When I brought it up, he got even more upset and said,"No No! Not now, then! If you had only said something then I would have let you leave with him!" After he calmed down, we talked about the dreams, and I told him about mine and how they just seemed to fade away and I never remember much else. He told me the rest of what happened from what he experienced in his dreams. I didn't remember much else because after he took me home, I did seem to fade away as he put it, and then I died while giving birth to the little girl. He went on to raise the girl but refused to love her. When she was old enough he sent her away to relatives and went on with his life, never marrying but burying himself in his shipping business. The other man came back and he only told him that I had died, never mentioned there had been a child at all.

Since that conversation, we have talked quite a few times, and he mentioned that he got the feeling for some reason that the other man was here in this life around me. I expalined my situation and my unique relationship now with this man. He was more un-nerved than ever and said that all of this gives him some peace and some hope about his own life. We have become what we were suppose to be in the first place, good friends! It helped us both understand our connection to each other, and much of why we did things the way we did.

Over the past few nights I've had some other dreams that somehow helped me too. I have had one of them before, about being a young woman standing in a field near some woods, I'm in the field with another woman giving her a baby, hugging them, crying and then leaving towards the woods where a group of people are waiting for me. I know I am giving her my baby because I can't take care of it, that I will probably never see either of them again. I leave with the group of people, one of whom is the same man in my life now.... we are running from men on horseback, always hiding, always fearful. In the middle of that same field later the men on horseback come toward us and the dream goes black. I imagine I died there, but my baby was safe with someone else.

Last night I had a dream about a familiar cottage by a lake where I have lived before, seemingly happy with that same man and a house full of children. He has to leave though, the reason is never clear. He doesn't want to leave but says he has to, but he will come back, he will love me forever. I have had many dreams about this life before, but this one last night was different in that while I was sad about him going, not coming back as he promised, while I missed him terribly, I felt guilty in feeling relieved that he was gone for one reason in particular. I was sitting outside the cottage in the peaceful night air and reveling in the peace, the quiet, the alone time, realizing that it was the first time in years that I was not carrying a baby in me, on me, with me, or worrying, crying about the loss of one. When I woke up, I realized just how difficult those lives and times were, and I was able to appreciate the fact that in this time I was at least able to make a choice as to when to bring a soul into the world to raise, to nurture, to love on better terms, more equal footing that times before. Don't know if that helps or makes sense to anyone else, but it was clearer to me. In those past lives, I had few or no choices or options in the timing or the decision of being able to care for a child, another soul. Where as this time, it was much more of mutual decision between that soul and mine.

Welllll Deborah, there you go, my book of thoughts, dreams and experiences. I didn't quite it expect it to be so long, and I do apologize for that. But, it seemed that once I started writing it down, I couldn't stop until I had gotten it all out! Thank you to all of you here and Bless all of you!!
 
Hi DreamFairie.
I'm almost lost for words after reading your story. What a dreadful experience it was - to put it mildly.
All I can say is that from all your other posts here you've obviously done a remarkably good job at getting your head together. I'm sure plenty of people would never have recovered from such an experience.
If this isn't a daft question, do you feel now that you went through all of that for a reason? When I look back at some of my own 'nasty moments' in life now I feel that they've contributed so much to making me who I am now. Rather perversely a rather more contented being than those that have had an easy time of it!!
I find I can look back on these bad times and although I feel sad I'm not burning up with anger as other people often do over tough breaks.
How about you?
Love Gemeni.
 
Gemini, I have to admit, it's taken me years to get my head and my heart back together from that experience as well as a few other nasty ones!! As far as reasons go, I'm still not sure if there was a specific reason for the experience happening the way it did, other than, had it not been so traumatic, so impacting on my life, I may have chosen that option once again and not been granted the chance and the opportunity to share my life with my daughter as who she is now...That is not saying either that it changed my view or belief in pro-choice, because it didn't. Mine was one of those rare cases of something gone seriously wrong, which could happen with any type of medical procedure... or with any life experience for that matter, no matter how well we plan or prepare for life, there are always events and things that we simply are not in control of.

As my Father used to say, what ever doesn't kill ya, makes ya stronger! He also continiously reminded me to learn from every experience, the only bad experience is one you didn't learn anything from.
 
O.K now I've read it. Yet again what a remarkable story. Doesn't it make you feel good when all the pieces of the puzzle fall into place? I agree with what you say about this being a time when we can make choices. We can decide (as long as nothing goes wrong!) about whether or not we want to be pregnant, then make another choice if we find we are. This places us at a rather unique point in history.
When women had huge families of about ten children or more they can't have had much time to consider anything else!!
Anyway I'm really happy that you've made so much sense of the memories.
Wishing you all good things. Love Gemeni.
 
Absolutely remarkable! Wow...seems you've had a lot to work out through this lifetime, DreamFairie. I'm glad you shared this even though it must have been hard for you to do so.

[[[[[HUGS]]]]]
 
Dear Dreamfairie,

I am touched by your story, the sincerity of it, the depth of understanding you have gained from your experiences, and your expressed reflections. It seems as though this life time, you have chosen healing and balance. Good for you! It is rare someone takes the experience into the realms of understanding and deep reflection. ;)

Your story resonates with my own. Although a different experience...a similar thread runs through it. Can I say Soul Sister? :) :) :)
Thank you so much -- for your bravery in sharing your deepest of thoughts, your deepest of secrets...so that others here, may gain insight into the issues, the insights, the feelings, emotions and thoughts women have around abortion. *S*S*S.
 
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