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Karma of world leaders, billionaires, celebrities who "have it all" in one life

It all depends on what you believe it is karma, which from what I've seen can be anything. When I say karma doesn't exist I refer to karma as a universal law or a system of punishment and reward.

I don't see what survival of souls has to do with karma. I don't see my view as Earth-centric. Karma is Earth-centric, and based on human justice, not divine justice. That's one of the main reasons I don't believe in it. The other one is I've never, ever, seen proof of it, it seems it only exists in the form of a belief in a human's mind. This thread is a good example.
Example: you do something bad, you get away with it by human justice, but you may be sure that eventually the Universe will give you what you deserve. Look back at your life; you'll find examples when something bad happened to you apparently for no reason; there was a reason: you thought / desired / did something that created a karmic trace, that caught up with you. Karma isn't Earth-centric. It is an universal law. If life disappeared on Earth, that wouldn't be even a bleep in the Consciousness Universe.

EDIT: By the way, it works as well when you do something good, you don't get immediately recognized for it, but you may be sure that eventually the Universe will give you what you deserve.
 
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I just read this and thought it appropriate.

So far as is concerned the operation of "luck" by means of the application of the power of that Something Within, I would here say: It is my firm belief and conviction that the individual may have anything he wants, provided always (1) that he knows exactly what he wants; (2) that he wants it hard enough; (3) that he confidently expects to obtain it; (4) that he persistently determines to obtain it; and (5) that he is willing to pay the price of its attainment. I believe that I have here given you the Secret of Luck— it is for you to apply it in practice.

Atkinson, William Walker; "X". THE INNER SECRET OR THAT SOMETHING WITHIN A story of awakening, enlightenment and initiation (Timeless Wisdom Collection Book 173) (Kindle Locations 1407-1411). Business and Leadership Publishing. Kindle Edition.
Some persons have very hazy and indefinite ideas concerning just what they want. Their wants are too indefinite, general, and hazy to create that strong, positive idealization which is the first requisite. If you ask them just what they want most in the world, you will find that they do not know, or at least cannot tell you with certainty. One moment they think that they want this thing, and the next moment another thing. Even when they think that they have arrived at a final decision, they usually will have but the most general ideas concerning it. You cannot get them pinned down to a clear-cut, definite, certain idea. You cannot "get them down to brass-tacks”, as the current slang phrase expresses it.

They are like the two folks in the old fairy-story who were given three wishes by the good fairy. You will remember that one of those folks first wished some foolish thing; then, in anger, the other person wished another foolish thing in connection with the first choice; and then both persons had to employ the third wish in order to get rid of the results of the first two silly ones. Very few persons know either that which represents the "summum bonum", or greatest good, of their desires, nor just what constitutes the exact nature and character of the things that they believe that they want most. The first step is to know positively, clearly, definitely and certainly just what you do want most. The next step is "to want it hard enough". Here, also, most persons "fall down". They do not know what it is to want anything "hard enough". They are feeble "wanters", when the matter is investigated. They are "pink-tea" wishers, instead of red-blooded, virile, "demanders". They would "like" this or that —they haven't the faintest conception of the "I've just got to have it" degree of desire which animates the real individual who goes after the thing he wants. Unless the Flame of Desire is aroused and be kept fiercely burning, there will be no Power set into operation by that Something Within. The Flame of Desire supplies the heat for the Steam of Will, and for much beside. Again, very few persons begin to appreciate or to realize the efficacy of Faith Power.

Faith is one of the great mental forces. This is taught in all religions and in many practical philosophies— but few understand it, few know just what it means, few take it in earnest. Faith is not blind belief or acceptance of the dogmas of assumed authority, as most persons believe; rather it is the earnest conviction and belief that comes from intuition. It is possessed by all persons who accomplish anything, and has been one of the principal factors in their attainment. Faith in that Something Within, when once you have recognized its presence and realized its nature, will set into operation its forces with great effect; lack of Faith will inhibit its operations. Many persons lacking Faith in the successful outcome of their Desires and Ideals really are manifesting Faith in the opposite outcome; and by so doing they set the forces into operation in the wrong direction. The man who believes in his lack of power, and who confidently expects the failure of his efforts, really is exercising Faith in the direction of failure instead of that of success. Many persons, by reason of this unfortunate and erroneous mental attitude are really actively employing Faith Power against their own interests.

The Faith in failure, inspired by Fear, is equal in force and power, in result and effect, to that Faith in success which is inspired by Hope, and confident expectation of the actualization of that which has been idealized. The idealization accompanying Fear is as effective as is the idealization arising from Hope, provided that the degree of Faith or confident expectation be the same in each case. Verily, many a man could truthfully say, with Job, that "the thing I feared hath come upon me". It is as true as that, '' As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he".

Likewise, few persons know what it is to pursue an idea or ideal with persistent determination. They have not learned how to "Will-to-Will". The tremendous forces of the Will are not called into efficient activity by them. "They will but feebly", as it has been said. They do not know what it is to have a purpose firmly fixed in mind, insistently desired, confidently expected, and then persistently followed with indomitable determination and resolution to the end. Well did the ancient occultists say that "In Imagination and Will is to be found the Secret of Attainment". The Imagination to form and to hold the Image, and the Will to actualize it into material objective form and reality: there is a great truth in these words, if one has sufficient insight to perceive it. Will Power, that indefinable but powerful weapon of the Self, is the sword firmly grasped in the right-hand of the "I Am I" which has awakened to a consciousness of its real essential nature and its innate powers. The Will lies closer to the "I Am" than any of the other mental instruments or tools. It operates along the lines of subconsciousness as well as of those of consciousness; it works while you sleep, as well as in your waking moments, once you have set it into operation.

Its influence extends far beyond the petty limits of your physical presence, and it produces results at a distance when properly applied. Only those in whom the consciousness of that Something Within, the "I Am I", has been awakened, can begin to understand what is meant by the old esoteric aphorism: "Let the Will will itself into willing." Finally, very few persons are content to "pay the price" of attaining that which they think they want. If they "want it hard enough" they are willing to pay the full price —otherwise they will "fall down" on this point. To "pay the price" of the attainment of that which you want, you must not only be willing to exercise your full mental and physical powers toward accomplishing the tasks and work lying along the path of attainment— you must do far more than this. You must pay the price of relinquishing the minor wants, wishes, and desires— you must sacrifice these on the altar of the Great Desire!

You cannot spend your penny, and still keep it; you cannot have both the pie and the dime. You must be willing to pay, and to pay in full, for what you get. The Law of Compensation is in full force in Nature. As the ancient saying informs us: "Said the gods to man, ‘What will you have? Take it, and pay for it" Nature and the Law of Things-as-they-Are do not demand sacrifices as gifts— they are quite willing to repay, and to repay generously. Equally insistent, however, are they that you, too, shall pay and pay in full. You are required to sacrifice the minor and subordinate things for the major and essential ones. Few are willing to do this. They protest when they are told that they must throw aside their rag-dolls and tin-swords and face the realities of life. They hug their childish playthings to their breasts, and cry aloud when asked to surrender them for things far more valuable to real individuals.

They are wedded to their idols— and as a consequence they never attain the realities of life. The woman who wishes to get rid of her surplus "fat"— who desires to escape being "a mountain of tallow, a tub of lard"— must "want to hard enough" to "pay the price" of giving up the tempting French fried potatoes, the flaky and delicious cream pies, the appealing French pastry, the delightful bonbons, the crisp Vienna rolls, and the rest of the obesity-producing family of foods. She must give up in order to get. The man who desires to attain business success must "want to hard enough" to "pay the price" of diligent application and faithful work; of the sacrifice of many pleasures which would interfere with his main object and end; of foregoing many indulgences which would tend to "sidetrack" him; of rendering service and "value received" for what he gets. In one way or another— often in many ways— the price must be paid, the balance maintained, the Law of Compensation observed.



Atkinson, William Walker; "X". THE INNER SECRET OR THAT SOMETHING WITHIN A story of awakening, enlightenment and initiation (Timeless Wisdom Collection Book 173) (Kindle Locations 1473-1482). Business and Leadership Publishing. Kindle Edition.[Spoiler/]
 
Lol.

Nobody has it all.

Bill Gates is the richest man in the world.

He has his own Caribbean island.

But, does it have a runway long enough to land a full blown jumbo aircraft?

China's artificial islands in the South China Sea will put any billionaire to shame.

OK. Not enough?

Bill Gates could probably assemble a pretty fast billion dollar super computer.

Know which country will launch a quantum computer in 10 years that will solve problems in 0.01 secs what Mr. Gates' billion dollar super comp would need to perform continuously for 100 years?

What I'm trying to say is at the macro level, the types of karma the ppl in the thread title possess are probably insignificant...

ie. You're the richest man on Earth, but did you build a magnificent artificial island in your lifetime?

ie. You're the richest man on Earth, but have you ever owned a computer almost as fast as God?

ie. You're the richest man on Earth, but have you ever lived on the moon for a few weeks?

Saying "nobody has it all" is a straw man's argument. I never asserted that anyone "has it all." But the more important question is why do some have so much more than others, without having worked hard for it? Why does God play favorites?
 
Saying "nobody has it all" is a straw man's argument. I never asserted that anyone "has it all." But the more important question is why do some have so much more than others, without having worked hard for it? Why does God play favorites?
Why don't you ask God?
 
Saying "nobody has it all" is a straw man's argument. I never asserted that anyone "has it all." But the more important question is why do some have so much more than others, without having worked hard for it? Why does God play favorites?


You are indefatigably persistent with this concept :)


What you are talking about is of course all very material. Many of us get distracted by the material when we come to this Earth, when we are really here to learn and progress in that which is not material - this is the physical world where we are being given the chance to do physical work to help us achieve progress with our souls.


Yes, I guess perhaps many of us would prioritise wanting to have enough money to be comfortable and not have to worry about paying essential bills, having enough food to eat, clothing, transport, etc. But as others have said, this is all relative and the priorities tend to change according to what era you are born in, where you live in the world, how high a soul level you have attained, etc.


We are all individuals here on Earth with different lessons to learn. The key here is to understand gratitude; avoid that destructive pitfall of comparing yourself to others, be grateful for your physical existence and this chance you have to do your own work on Earth. As you fill yourself with love and gratitude, this focus on material concepts will go down in your estimation, and that is when your own true wealth will come to you, in whatever form that may be.
 
You are indefatigably persistent with this concept :)


What you are talking about is of course all very material. Many of us get distracted by the material when we come to this Earth, when we are really here to learn and progress in that which is not material - this is the physical world where we are being given the chance to do physical work to help us achieve progress with our souls.


Yes, I guess perhaps many of us would prioritise wanting to have enough money to be comfortable and not have to worry about paying essential bills, having enough food to eat, clothing, transport, etc. But as others have said, this is all relative and the priorities tend to change according to what era you are born in, where you live in the world, how high a soul level you have attained, etc.


We are all individuals here on Earth with different lessons to learn. The key here is to understand gratitude; avoid that destructive pitfall of comparing yourself to others, be grateful for your physical existence and this chance you have to do your own work on Earth. As you fill yourself with love and gratitude, this focus on material concepts will go down in your estimation, and that is when your own true wealth will come to you, in whatever form that may be.

I don't want my "true wealth" to be some wishy washy thing that can't sustain myself. It's awfully clear that people with money in this world, get more respect, don't have to suck up to others, have more time to explore the finer aspects of life, etc.... I want that too. Why can't my soul experience that? Why can other souls experience that and not me? When will be my turn? That's all I want to know.
 
If we're talking about being famous or having a lot of money, in my past life I was. I wasn't a billionaire but I had a lot of money before I was 30. I became a leader of a generation (something I thought was stupid) and the money came thanks to my "talent" and recognition. My childhood was horrible. Having money and fame, I envied other artists and people who seemed to have more things than me. I was a disgruntled maybe, but I was never in any way happy to have so much power and money. My wife and daughter benefited from that and I think it was the only thing I found good about having money: Security. People close to you, at least while they're here, will take advantage of that. On the other hand, as you should know, there are "good" things and "bad" things in a situation.

Tbh, being famous or not famous, having a lot of money or not having a lot of money, doesn't help at all anyway. When you die you realize that it is not such an important thing. I don't say it by "Your soul is more important than your physical body" or something like that. What did I do in the life before the famous life? Nothing. What have I paid in this life to be famous? Nothing. You can just get rich and have a lot of money in any life, if you want. When will it be your turn? I don't know. I hope that if you ever have a lot of money and recognition, you can take it and be happy with it. Personally, it wasn't nice for me. I can't speak for everyone.

I checked that if you're poor in one life, it doesn't mean you'll be rich in the next. You simply choose to be rich or poor to learn something and see the two sides of the coin, not for a punishment or a reward.
 
If we're talking about being famous or having a lot of money, in my past life I was. I wasn't a billionaire but I had a lot of money before I was 30. I became a leader of a generation (something I thought was stupid) and the money came thanks to my "talent" and recognition. My childhood was horrible. Having money and fame, I envied other artists and people who seemed to have more things than me. I was a disgruntled maybe, but I was never in any way happy to have so much power and money. My wife and daughter benefited from that and I think it was the only thing I found good about having money: Security. People close to you, at least while they're here, will take advantage of that. On the other hand, as you should know, there are "good" things and "bad" things in a situation.

Tbh, being famous or not famous, having a lot of money or not having a lot of money, doesn't help at all anyway. When you die you realize that it is not such an important thing. I don't say it by "Your soul is more important than your physical body" or something like that. What did I do in the life before the famous life? Nothing. What have I paid in this life to be famous? Nothing. You can just get rich and have a lot of money in any life, if you want. When will it be your turn? I don't know. I hope that if you ever have a lot of money and recognition, you can take it and be happy with it. Personally, it wasn't nice for me. I can't speak for everyone.

I checked that if you're poor in one life, it doesn't mean you'll be rich in the next. You simply choose to be rich or poor to learn something and see the two sides of the coin, not for a punishment or a reward.

I will simply choose to be rich and wealthy in every single life so I can enjoy my every incarnation on earth. Who would choose to be a beggar? Who would choose to be sick? ugly? poor? disabled? Are you kidding me? lol
 
Logically, if no-one would choose to be sick, ugly or poor and so on, yet such people are amongst us, then perhaps there is no choice at all? That would also preclude the possibility of being able to choose wealth.
 
I will simply choose to be rich and wealthy in every single life so I can enjoy my every incarnation on earth. Who would choose to be a beggar? Who would choose to be sick? ugly? poor? disabled? Are you kidding me? lol

Your soul will have different ideas from your incarnation, material things will not be as thought of as highly
 
* sighs *

I'm not teasing anyone. I didn't register on the forum to tease someone. As Briski said, your soul basically has other desires and needs. I've been rich, poor, ugly, and sick in several past lives, and it wasn't a punishment.

I suffered physically, yes, obviously, but I learned many things and those things now serve me in some way. I answered your doubts: Is there any way to be rich in your next life? Depending on what I experienced, yes or no. You can be rich, or whatever you want to be, but it's not a punishment or a reward. I think you reap what you sow. Before my famous life I didn't do anything, after my famous life (now) I haven't paid anything or suffered any repercussions for it. If you have talent and clear goals you can have a lot of money if you want. The genes, the family and the environment in which you are born can obviously affect your decisions.
 
The point for some people having such a focus on money is to not be social burdens themselves while being able to provide stability for their families, think of it as being the middle of the road where one can focus on actual living rather than the hard grind of 9 to 5 survival that often sucks up 40+ years of life at a time. As for fame that is pointless and a trap not worth bothering with but we all have to realize that there is always a need that at some point recognition comes due be it for good or for ill. My desire of it is to simply escape the 9 to 5 plantation and to live the remaining years in humble peace.
 
Hi All,

Hmmm. Gauss576 sounds and talks exactly like JustinTime, who founded this thread and some others. Gauss may be someone different with the same ideas, but either way, I doubt you will be able to convince him that his obsession with wealth, power and position is not ultimate, and that even if obtained, such things cannot be assured from lifetime to lifetime. Anyhow, good luck to you Gauss, I sincerely hope you get the lifetime you are looking for (as long as I am not someone who has to be under your thumb). I can empathize to some extent. Frankly, from the current perspective, I wouldn't mind one myself. Sometimes I feel like Tevye in "Fiddler on the Roof" singing "If I was a rich man . . . ." However, things apparently look different on the other side of the veil.

For the rest of you, I think you all may be beating your heads against a wall, but I suppose it is worth a try. I'm going to sit this one out. I already discussed this same topic ad nauseam with the same person (or someone very similar) on the last round.

Cordially,
S&S
 
From my personal experience, and it has been already elegantly expressed in previous posts, but an abondance of money is absolutely not correlated with happiness. While I was never rich, and more often was absolutely penniless, I have been around, closely, with people who were either rich to the point of never having to work -both by their own work or through heritage - or had build a fame around their name: I have never seen it as a condition for happiness.

Even leaving the happiness aside, I would simply say that the misconception is to think that a rich life is necessarily a life with abundant money. I tend to see that a rich life usually brings happiness, and in this way there are many ways to be rich. One can be rich in terms of friends they have, or the connections they make, or the knowledge they have amassed through their curiosity.

I agree with you though, that abject poverty is like living with no energy: wether you want it or not, you can't do much. It's very frustrating and doesn't fulfil. But after having managed to make a decent living now, I've come to realize that the threshold to leave poverty and be able to have a stable outlook on the future (I can feed myself now and later, I can pay for my own roof over my head, I can afford being sick and get a treatment) is all I needed to have a rich life. The rest is on me and how I choose to spend my time and energy.

I am sorry that I wrote such a self-centered message, but I just wanted to add my personal experience, and how much experience has shown me that fantastic wealth is by no means a free pass to a happy and rich life.
 
One question I've asked myself sometimes is whether I would change places with someone else. The price to be paid would be to lose my identity, all that makes me me. All my likes and dislikes, interests, hopes and dreams as well as fears, would be lost, and replaced by those of the other person. The answer I gave myself then was, no, the price was too high. The idea hasn't really interested me since then.
 
Hi Benjamin,

I agree, the extremes at either end of the wealth scale tend to be the pits. I have asked myself what it would be like to win the lottery, as some of the lotteries in the U.S. have gone up to something close to a Billion! dollars. The first thing I think of is all of the cool projects and things I could finance (good deeds as well as personal interests). The second thing I think of is the fact that all of my children and grandchildren would become the immediate target of every ruthless kidnapper in the world and that we'd all have to live in guarded compounds with bodyguards everywhere we went, never able to just be anonymous and enjoy quiet times in nature or anywhere else. As you say, a sufficiency is good, too much more . . . not so much.

Anyhow, I can't help but post Tevye's musical lament. Don't miss the ending after he finishes singing--stepping in manure on the way out of the barn and having to haul his own cart because his horse has gone lame. Aaaaah, life. o_O


I also loved his response to one of his prospective son-in-laws, who tells him that wealth is a curse. He looks to the heavens and shouts "May the Lord smite me and may I never recover!" :D At one time or another I think most all of us have felt the same way, both in terms of stepping in the manure, pulling the cart, and wistfully wishing that there was a whole lot more money in the old bank account!

Cordially,
S&S
 
Thanks, Ken. I really like the little story and poem. I'd paste it in if it didn't have such a prominent (C) symbol attached!
 
Maybe to be wealthy or influential or "famous" or what ever or all of it at once is just one of many experiences? Something the soul wants to experience while the individual the soul incarnated in decides what to make out of it?
Personally, I do not know what to make of money and stuff in this life, I tend to see it all too negative I fear...
Anyway, I do not see why any soul would have to "pay" for having been wealthy in one life. A good friend once told me that the soul has to go through every possible experience. And this is what I believe... or want to believe...
 
I believe that having money can give you the means to do good / great things that the lack of money prevents you from doing. When you malign money you give up an opportunity to do good. As with many other things, it depends how you look at it.
 
I understand the desire to want money.
I have emigrated to UK in 2000, for economic reasons, and partly to escape my mother. “West” seemed heaven when I was growing up in ‘80/‘90 in Eastern Europe and since childhood I wanted to come to that heaven on Earth. I came here and had nothing for years! Plus I was alone and not speaking the language. My life has changed though. I leaned the language, I became professional, found a nice man, got married to him, got property, travelled the world and two years ago became a mother. I can say I got very lucky. My life got upgraded but I still remember not owning anything. Walking to the shopping mall for window shopping, imaging what I would buy had I have money. There are also other things like a shame at school beacause I didn’t own branded trainers/jeans, I didn’t get pocket money to buy ice-cream, to go with the class to cinema etc, etc. I would not therefore criticise someone for wanting money and the privileges that come with it. I’m not talking of super rich, their silly lives on their silly yachts.

While I’m here I want to ask, because all of you established and experienced members write so beautifully and wisely (yes, I got hooked and read loads of other posts) and mention learning. We here to learn, we need to experience this and that to learn, from two post above that the soul needs to go through every possible experience.
But why?
I wish someone told me why I have to bag those experiences? Why do I need to learn? Why couldn’t I just know all I’m supposed to know when I was called to existence? Why energy/soul from different dimension/vibrations needs to desend into this rather horrible world for experiences?
Lots of you said you needed a life of yours to understand and learn something. You are at peace and OK if your next life is crap as you obviously need that learning. Tbh I’m afraid my next life could be a lot worse, I wouldn’t have guts to glimpse into my past lives as I’m v emotional and companionate, I think I would be ashamed to learn that I was say a soldier and I killed or hurt anyone. Since becoming a mother I’m much more sensitive to child abuse and cruelty to children. What that child gains from this? Who in the right mind allows for it to happen? Is child abuser learning something from abuse? I hate to exist in the world in which children are abused!
 
Hi snowflake, you ask a meaningful question...
I wish someone told me why I have to bag those experiences? Why do I need to learn? Why couldn’t I just know all I’m supposed to know when I was called to existence?
and answer it yourself...
Since becoming a mother I’m much more sensitive to child abuse and cruelty to children.
Sometimes the understanding we had before lacked a bit of further experience perhaps.
 
Oh Ken, this is not that simple.
Child abuse should not exist.
Has something “created” experience of child abuse for me to know it’s bloody wrong and horrible?? It’s just wrong in itself! Children stories were written to teach us when we were kids about good and bad.
I don’t need to see/ hear more cruelty in any form to learn it’s horrendus.
 
You are right, but my post was just to use what you said as an example how some experiences deepen our understandings - how our understandings increase through different experiences.
 
I understand the desire to want money.
I have emigrated to UK in 2000, for economic reasons, and partly to escape my mother. “West” seemed heaven when I was growing up in ‘80/‘90 in Eastern Europe and since childhood I wanted to come to that heaven on Earth. I came here and had nothing for years! Plus I was alone and not speaking the language. My life has changed though. I leaned the language, I became professional, found a nice man, got married to him, got property, travelled the world and two years ago became a mother. I can say I got very lucky. My life got upgraded but I still remember not owning anything. Walking to the shopping mall for window shopping, imaging what I would buy had I have money. There are also other things like a shame at school beacause I didn’t own branded trainers/jeans, I didn’t get pocket money to buy ice-cream, to go with the class to cinema etc, etc. I would not therefore criticise someone for wanting money and the privileges that come with it. I’m not talking of super rich, their silly lives on their silly yachts.

While I’m here I want to ask, because all of you established and experienced members write so beautifully and wisely (yes, I got hooked and read loads of other posts) and mention learning. We here to learn, we need to experience this and that to learn, from two post above that the soul needs to go through every possible experience.
But why?
I wish someone told me why I have to bag those experiences? Why do I need to learn? Why couldn’t I just know all I’m supposed to know when I was called to existence? Why energy/soul from different dimension/vibrations needs to desend into this rather horrible world for experiences?
Lots of you said you needed a life of yours to understand and learn something. You are at peace and OK if your next life is crap as you obviously need that learning. Tbh I’m afraid my next life could be a lot worse, I wouldn’t have guts to glimpse into my past lives as I’m v emotional and companionate, I think I would be ashamed to learn that I was say a soldier and I killed or hurt anyone. Since becoming a mother I’m much more sensitive to child abuse and cruelty to children. What that child gains from this? Who in the right mind allows for it to happen? Is child abuser learning something from abuse? I hate to exist in the world in which children are abused!

There are many opinions, even belief systems, about why we are here, about why we experience situations that we think that we shouldn't have chosen to experience if we were given the choice, about what is good and what is bad, ...

Questions like these could motivate us to look for answers, for deeper meanings, or just for the right guru and put our faith in him/her.

Unfortunately the answers can't be rationalized, and can't be emotionally felt either, in my opinion. I started by reading everything that seemed to give me answers, or guidance. Ideas that I discovered directed me to other sources of information / knowledge. Eventually I reached the conclusion that I can't rely on what others preach, and that the only way is to turn inside, to go deep, to ask questions, and ... answers started to come.

I can give you the answers I believe in, but why would you believe me more than any other poster on this great and awful internet? My recommendation is to look for answers inside yourself, from a neutral position, unbiased, unemotional, with only a mild curiosity.

I don't believe in having to go through any painful experiences. I don't believe that we're here to learn to love and be compassionate either. I believe we aren't consciously the essences that incarnated in us. I believe we aren't our past incarnations either.
 
Could you expand on that so I could understand your meaning a little better baro-san?
My conscious "I" is in relation to the essence that incarnated in me, as my dreaming me is in relation to my conscious "I".

When "I" die in the physical, I wake up to my essence's consciousness on its plane of existence.
 
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