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The biggest question of all...

TheCuriousOne

TheCuriousOne

Always Searching...
Can people who were unbelievably evil and disgusting in their life (like Hitler and Osama bin Laden) reincarnate? Or is there something like "OK We're drawing the line here, no more incarnations for you!" This does NOT mean I want these people back, I am quite glad they are no longer around. But I'm just curious. Especially about Hitler, I mean, he's been dead for over 60 years. I have googled this and every site seems to say that he will live a very hard life (very poor, crippled, etc) but would that really be true? Does the state of our current life reflect the personality of our past lives (ie if you were nice you will have a good life, if you were a jerk you will have a difficult life). bin Laden's only been dead for 3, and I'm wondering also, is there something like a "timelock" for evil people? As in, if someone is truly appalingly evil, they are not allowed to reincarnate for 1,000 years or something like that?

I have looked in the archives and have not found anything on this. Or at least, not under the terms I was using. I will repeat again: I DO NOT want these people back, I am only curious about how these types of people fit into reincarnation. Thank you for your consideration.
 
Everyone reincarnates. Just because they were evil before does not mean they will be evil this time. Just because someone is a "victim" does not mean they have always been innocent. I know of several cases where the current "victim" was a perpetrator in a past life and the current perpetrator was THEIR victim in the same past life. So the tables get turned. Maybe if more people realized they are coming back they might act differently.
 
Ok argonne thanks for answering. I think that Hitler has reincarnated (as scary as that sounds), but whoever he is now (especially if xe knows) is probably doing everything to deny it.(there was one forum on another site that said "I am Hitler reincarnated, ask me anything" but I think that guy was just trying to get attention [like "hey look I'm the reincarnation of napoleon"]).
 
TheCuriousOne said:
I think that Hitler has reincarnated (as scary as that sounds), but whoever he is now (especially if xe knows) is probably doing everything to deny it.
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Maybe he is in the same family. He did have relatives, including a nephew who immigrated to the U.S. in 1939 to get away from him. The nephew had 2 or 3 sons born in the U.S. after WWII (Baby Boomers). They are just regular people who have different last names and security to protect against Nazi-hunter fanatics. There was a documentary about the family on the History channel. It might be on Netflix or YouTube.
 
argonne, that may be true. Same family reincarnation is very common. But I heard that when someone commits suicide, their next life will be the same as their past life in order for them to relearn the lesson they didn't learn. (If earth is a school, that would be the equivalent of getting held back). Does this mean, for instance, that if Hitler came back as, say, a businessman, he would try to take over a business far larger than his own and wind up having his company lost? Or is being reborn into the same family enough since they still have a bad mark on their name?
 
We don't really know how reincarnation works. We don't know if it's just a mechanical process or if it is guided. We also don't understand karma clearly and its roll in our lives. Personally, why any one person not be able to come back doesn't make sense to me, no matter who that person is or what they've done. We humans tend to judge the past and think of certain people as "evil," but how do we really know? When they die, what happens to them? What if there is no judgment like certain theistic doctrine teaches us? Perhaps they decide for themselves what they want their next life to be like and maybe they do try to follow a path towards higher enlightenment. We'd love to think that evil people are punished ultimately, but I see no evidence of that in the real world. Sociopaths get away with torture and murder all the time while people are reborn with easy lives and easy circumstances who supposedly did bad things in their last life. Doesn't that make you think?
 
Yes, it does. And it makes me wonder about the other way too: Who were these people in their past lives that made them decide to be reborn as that type of person? Why did they decide to lead that kind of life? Would they be old (one who is trying to learn about "evil" from the villain's POV) or new (one who is trying to test the human "bandwagon" mindset)?
 
Difficult question.


Unquestionably there are evil people around and yep...that includes Hitler and Bin Laden.


Then it comes to a question of degree and the vast vast majority of people are on some sort of "sliding scale" of evil I would say.


Being that there are VERY few indeed perfect people on this planet.


It was quite a shock to read a recent article about a survey having been done about peoples honesty levels (this being in Britain...other countries might be better or worse). This was a survey to try and find out how honest people are and asked them whether they told lies and/or "white lies" and the survey result came back with only about 10% of people don't basically tell lies of any description.


So that's 90% of people straight off that aren't "perfect people" just by that definition, as obviously perfect people will be honest.


That's before we go into whether even some of the 10% would be unfaithful/thieves/etc - if obviously in ways that didn't involve them telling lies.


Hence - it boils down to a matter of degree at just which point the vast vast majority (maybe everyone??) is on the perfect through to average through to bad through to positively evil scale..
 
This is a question we can't answer with absolute certainty. We don't know how reincarnation works and we don't even know if reincarnation is what we think it is or if there's another explanation for it.


If reincarnation exists, it makes sense to me that it would apply to everyone. But who knows what would happen to a reincarnation of Hitler? Maybe that person is completely different now or is a person committed to the same ideas. We can only guess.
 
I agree. Everyone reincarnates. It makes no difference whether you were 'good' or 'bad'. As ZeonChar says, we don't really understand how reincarnation works, but I think it's a natural occurrence, like a tree bearing fruit every year. Some of the fruit might turn out better than other fruit, but that's life. Things happen.


Besides, who (or what?) decides what's 'good' and what's 'bad'? Even people who do bad things think they are doing the right thing. Hitler thought he was doing the right thing believe it or not. According to him, he was saving the human race from imminent destruction. There's quite a bit of evidence to suggest that he was high on drugs most of the time which might account for a lot of his behaviour. Does that make him 'evil' or misguided by the people who advised him that cocaine would make him a 'superman'? Also, he was not the only one responsible. There was a strange kind of 'group think' going on at the time that supported his world view. So, who's really to blame?


It used to be OK to burn women for witch craft. Indeed, those who did it claimed that it was a very virtuous thing to do, as they were saving their souls from eternal damnation. It used to be OK to beat children really quite harshly. Indeed, people who did it said it was the kindest thing to do, so as to make children grow up strong and well behaved. Once it was thought if you weren't married by the time you were 16 it was all over for you. Now it's illegal. People's views on things change. That's evolution. Is it because we get to come back and have another go at it, even if we mess up pretty badly?


Some of the 'bad' people in history have come back more than once and been 'bad' all over again. Sad but true. KarenF might have something to say about this, but does anyone else think that Alexander the Great and Napoleon Bonaparte look very much alike? Certainly their life stories are somewhat similar. I've often wondered about a few modern day 'baddies' and if they've been bad before.


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TheCuriousOne said:
But I heard that when someone commits suicide, their next life will be the same as their past life in order for them to relearn the lesson they didn't learn.?
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People say a lot of things. The evidence, such as we have from people's first hand accounts anyway, does not bear this out. There is no evidence that we are here to 'learn' any specific 'lessons'. People may choose certain experiences they want to explore. People have reported that they are offered a choice of several different scenarios for instance. But there is no suggestion of them being coerced or 'guilted' into doing anything in particular if it is not their inclination.


There is no evidence that people are punished in any way from one life to the next. They may feel remorse for their actions, certainly. They may carry some anger towards people who have harmed them or phobias about things that happened. But there is no reason to think that all this is being orchestrated or managed centrally or even that there are any 'rules' as we might normally understand them.


Brian Weiss has done a lot of work on the 'life between life' experience. He has written a couple of good books. 'Messages from the masters' explores the notions around what it is we are 'supposed' (if anything) to be doing. Worth a read. You can get them on Amazon.com.
 
TheCuriousOne said:
But I heard that when someone commits suicide, their next life will be the same as their past life in order for them to relearn the lesson they didn't learn. (If earth is a school, that would be the equivalent of getting held back).
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I've only noticed this because of the quote in tanguerra's post above mine and while I disagree with some of tanguerra's points, the ones above are some that I agree with. I don't believe in this for a second. I don't think that everyone who commits suicide has a lesson to learn.


People commit suicide when they're very desperate and see no other way out. The factors that have driven them to extreme circumstances aren't necessarily their own doing, in fact, some of the most common reasons to commit suicide include mental illness or being in abusive, hurtful situations.


I hate the idea that if people are mistreated or that if they're unwell, that it's a lesson they have to learn from. Nobody should ever have to go through being hurt by people who gain something by mistreating others, and nobody should ever have to suffer through a mental illness without getting options to get better.
 
Phthalo said:
I hate the idea that if people are mistreated or that if they're unwell, that it's a lesson they have to learn from. Nobody should ever have to go through being hurt by people who gain something by mistreating others, and nobody should ever have to suffer through a mental illness without getting options to get better.
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Yes. I agree with this. Some people have the notion that victims of crime or abuse have somehow made a deal with their abuser in order to learn a lesson or settle a 'karmic debt'. But I doubt it personally. It just doesn't really make sense to me.


I think things just happen and some people just behave very badly. I certainly don't believe that the victim is to blame in any of this or that the abuser should be excused because they are somehow teaching someone a 'lesson' or helping them have an 'experience'.


People usually behave violently because they have been maltreated as children and have learned from bad examples that violence is a way to get what you want. Not always of course. Many mistreated children manage to rise above it.


I tend to the way of thinking that there is not nearly as much 'divine intervention' going on in people's lives that others do. I tend to think we learn slowly and painfully by trial and error that violence and bad behaviour only hurt ourselves in the long run. I'm with the Buddhists on this issue. I think that eventually, maybe after hundreds or even thousands of lives, we learn that 'beneficial behaviours' - kindness, compassion, patience and so on make us happier than non-beneficial behaviours - violence, anger, greed.... Eventually, hopefully everyone will work this out! Wouldn't that be nice!
 
tanguerra said:
I think things just happen and some people just behave very badly. I certainly don't believe that the victim is to blame in any of this or that the abuser should be excused because they are somehow teaching someone a 'lesson' or helping them have an 'experience'.
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Yes, this is what irks me about claims that bad things happen because people need a lesson or an experience. It feels too much like the victim is being blamed for something... and in this case, something that happened in another life, if we're even right about the whole thing about past lives. In reality, reponsibility for abuse and cruelty is on the people who choose to be abusive and cruel, and on the system that allows those behaviours to happen and even teaches them (such as in the case of prejudices or cyclical abuse). :(
 
Okay I am gonna say something challenging... blame it on Hitler but the whole world allowed it... They allowed a crazy person into the government... Okay you might say Germans did, but in the end of the day we are all collectively responsible for what happens on this planet, our home. Our thoughts and actions affect everything else. So whatever karma Hitler gets, what if that karma is de facto us getting him, AND it already happened? Just wondering.
 
Demi said:
Okay I am gonna say something challenging... blame it on Hitler but the whole world allowed it... They allowed a crazy person into the government...
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The Germans are not the first to put a crazy person in charge of the government and they won't be the last.
 
Demi said:
Okay I am gonna say something challenging... blame it on Hitler but the whole world allowed it... They allowed a crazy person into the government... Okay you might say Germans did, but in the end of the day we are all collectively responsible for what happens on this planet, our home. Our thoughts and actions affect everything else. So whatever karma Hitler gets, what if that karma is de facto us getting him, AND it already happened? Just wondering.
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Exactly argonne. Good point Demi. Hitler cops a lot of flack, but he is by no means the only, or the craziest, or the most misguided leader the world has ever chosen. He is just the worst one most recently ... or has everyone forgotten Pol Pot (to name only one more recent example)?

...He presided over a totalitarian dictatorship that imposed a radical form of agrarian socialism on the country. His government forced urban dwellers to move to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labour projects. The combined effects of executions, forced labour, malnutrition and poor medical care caused the deaths of approximately 25 percent of the Cambodian population. In all, an estimated 1 to 3 million people (out of a population of slightly over 8 million) died due to the policies of his four-year premiership...
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It's convenient to blame a few 'bad' people for all the problems of the world, and think that if we just got rid of them, everything would be OK. But at the end of the day, we are all 'one'. What the individual person does is either supported, or not supported, by a larger group. So, responsibility must be shared by all members of any group who stand by and do nothing while madness of one sort or another reigns, as it has more than once in our long and (in)glorious human history.


People need to think what they are doing, not just blame the next guy.





"AND it already happened?"


Well, that's a whole new thread on the 'nature of time' Demi! You should start it off? :)
 
There is a theory in quantum physics, that on the level of material reality (which most people experience) time is linear, but on subtler levels it has "any shape" and on the level of unified field, all events exist simultaneously.


Whatever it means for us loafers, I don't know, for energy workers it means one can go in and heal the past and even the future, supposedly.


Yes there are and were a lot of crazy leaders, and they can only exist when they are supported by a larger group who agrees with their ideas. So government is in fact a reflection of the "mood of the whole nation"
 
Michael Newton goes into this in his books. Basically a soul that has a track record of habitually cruel lives, eventually gets taken out of circulation. The soul's energy becomes dark and scrambled and it will not be allowed to incarnate.
 
I believe what I felt for along time


Karma Indebtedness not learning from last life


The soul has deep wound on it as from of guilt


that sometimes manifest in other ways.


This why I am here once again I did some terrible


things in other lives that have guilt over


Now realize why I am been depressed all my life.


Hopefully I will learn something that should


know that is a better path for me.
 
Cryscat said:
Michael Newton goes into this in his books. Basically a soul that has a track record of habitually cruel lives, eventually gets taken out of circulation. The soul's energy becomes dark and scrambled and it will not be allowed to incarnate.
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Sort of like books at the library?
 
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