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Suicide and Reincarnation

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MobiusX

New Member
I have this belief that if one takes his life that he won't be reincarnated but punished for his actions because I consider reincarnation a reward, a blessing, whatever you might call it. Can someone be reincarnated if suicide occurs? Is it care? Any statistics? What happens to the soul after he kills himself?
 
MobiusX said:
Can someone be reincarnated if suicide occurs? Is it care? Any statistics? What happens to the soul after he kills himself?
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Hi MobiusX!


Although there are no statistics, per se, regarding the question you posed, much of what I've read seems to suggest that life itself is difficult enough that most people would not consider reincarnation to be desirable at all, unless there is some heroic purpose in coming back. Many would even consider life to be punishing, if not punishment. I would not call it a reward.


I personally think that denying a suicide from reincarnation is kind of missing the point. We all make mistakes, and suicide is just one of many of the mistakes that we are all capable of. It is widely believed that the only thing we accomplish through suicide is to delay the eventual path that has been set for us, and we are simply reborn in order to do over again what we were intended to do. However, the harm we do to ourselves is compounded by the hurt we inflict on everyone else, especially those who truly care about us. I would go further to add that we also inflict hurt and disappointment upon even those who don't know us. I think suicides steal a little something from all of us, whenever we hear of someone doing such a thing.


For me reincarnation is not a reward, but a duty -- and, perhaps, a blessing for those who see reincarnation as an opportunity to grow and learn to love others. I believe that suicides eventually come back (reincarnate) in order to accomplish whatever they failed to do before. Of course, there are those who believe that many suicides spend some time as earthbound spirits until they realize the pain they've caused others. However, I have no personal experience or insight that would reflect any truth in this theory.


I can only offer a generalized opinion based strictly on what I've read in numerous books, and anecdotal reports, which seem very consistent. We can develop our own theories based on what seems "fair" to us, but I've discovered through experience that what seems fair and logical is often not the reality at all. Perhaps someone with deeper spiritual insight can offer their personal experience with this issue.
 
Hi Mobius,


John made some great points and I agree with him.


I don't know anything about statistics either, but I know that I ended my previous life by suicide and came back almost immediately. I don't think you're punished if you commit suicide, however it's the most egoistic decision you can make. In this life I've experienced suicide happening within my close family and I think that was part of my lesson to be learnt in this life. Now I fully understand the impact of that decision, the sorrow, the anger. Imo, it's 'punishment' enough to understand how much sorrow you've brought upon those who love you.
 
I have a hazy memory regarding a calculated suicide that I don't know where to classify it yet; a genuine memory or a wild imagination. Here it is in the language and feelings I associate with this scene:


Had a great time in the late 50s early 60s. Lived in a big American city, maybe New York (though I have no attraction for the place, even a slight aversion). About 1966 I realize I've been dodging a bullet by not being drafted. The military is the last place I want to be, but I can't see myself running around and burning draft cards like all those whacked out idiots. Hey, peace and love is all cool, but calling for some ill-conceived "revolution" and destroying stuff just doesn't do it for me. I mean, come on. The only reason you guys want the war to end now is because you college freaks will be graduating soon and will be eligible for the draft. (All right. Maybe a few of you are honest in your quest for peace. Now put the rocks down.)


But not all hippies are "whacked out idiots". Whacked out, probably, but this one chick was really into this "India" stuff and talked a lot about coming back after you die. I visited her several times. I liked her a lot.


I got my draft notice and decided that I wasn't going. I didn't know if they planned to send me to Viet Nam or not, but I didn't want to find out. I went to see this chick and asked her to load up a hypo for me. She didn't want to do it. I was only a casual user, and not of the intravenous stuff, and I think she knew what I had planned. She swore it didn't work that way. I figured what's the worst that'll happen? I'll come back? Maybe I'll have missed the war by then.


We finally compromised. She didn't want to kill anyone. It would be bad for her karma and mine. I said I'll die either way, either here on my own terms or in Viet Nam on someone else's terms. "Help me go easy." (I have that phrase stuck in my head, but 'go easy' is used a lot in "Full Metal Jacket", one of my favorite movies.) She loaded it and left the room and I checked out on my own terms, trusting that I would come back.


In 1967, there I was in the newborn ward at Valley Med in San Jose, and here I am tapping away at a keyboard.


I haven't decided, as I said, whether this is past life memory or just my imagination having fun. It's an interesting use of reincarnation, though, IMO.
 
I have heard from reading mystical books (I think Sylvia Browne takes this view) that suicides often return immediately to face the exact same problems they tried to avoid by killing themselves. So it's a really dumb idea, plus you're hurting a lot of people in the process.


I remember a past life where I pretty much got myself killed on purpose and I did, in fact, return immediately to face the same kinds of challenges.
 
If my memory is more than just my imagination, I doubt I'll be drafted, being a 43 year old woman with diabetes and blood pressure issues due to weight. (Gee, thanks for the nifty genetics, mom! ;) )


I did try my hand at joining the Navy, but an injury in boot camp took me out of service. Now all this unrest these days has my attention. All we need is for one of those twits to send us a nuke. I still won't rush out and join any of the services, but I will find some capacity in which to help my nation, even if it's just serving coffee at the USO.


I did, at one point in this life, hit a bout of depression so terrible that I was all set to do it. I was one step away from punching out. After a moment's pause something else kicked in using the voice I would hear in my head with the above "memory" and said "Nah, you got better things to do with your life than hit the eject button." Don't know where it came from, but it felt so right. I broke down into laughter and never looked back. So if that '60's memory is just my imagination, it has served me well!
 
I have a memory of being a Japanese man during the 1600's. My feeling is that I was a soldier or samurai and I recall, what I initially thought, was a memory of freezing to death in a snowy forest.


However, I have this odd insistant feeling that it was suicide and I'm just not remembering the whole thing.


Regardless, I came back again pretty quickly after that lifetime.
 
So here's a question about suicide and reincarnation. Does it matter why a person may choose to end his or her own life?


A depressed or angry person who does so in a fit of passion may have a truly last-second decision (as in while standing before that final light) that maybe that wasn't what they meant to do.


A person who dies of an accidental drug overdose has effectively taken his or her own life. I can see this sort of soul realizing their error.


But suppose you are being chased. If you are caught, it's a fate worse than death. You are cornered on a cliff. You decide to jump.


Suppose you have a horribly painful, terminal condition. You know your family hates seeing you suffer as much as you hate suffering. Is it wrong to embrace death early?


A prisoner who willing lays his neck on the chopping block is no different, in my book, than a person who puts a gun to their own head and pulls the trigger. Both are voluntarily allowing themselves to die.


So does karma "punish" all of these people equally by instantly sending them back, or is there some leniency based on circumstance?
 
Jody said:
I have heard from reading mystical books (I think Sylvia Browne takes this view) that suicides often return immediately to face the exact same problems they tried to avoid by killing themselves. So it's a really dumb idea, plus you're hurting a lot of people in the process.
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Just a couple days ago I heard Dr. Brian Weiss answer a question about suicide and reincarnation on YouTube. He said that it has been his experience over the years that people who died young (like myself) and people who commited suicide (like Sunniva) tend to reincarnate almost immediately. They also tend to reincarnate into life circumstances that are very similar to the ones that they left prematurely (I found this to be true for myself). He said that there is no punishment for suicide. Life is not about punishment. It is about learning and understanding. Often times the person who commits suicide, once they are removed from the body and back in spirit form, realizes the mistake that they've made and wants to reincarnate as quickly as possible to make amends for what they have done.
 
All I believe, have experienced, and have heard about from accounts, is that you don't get to sidestep the problems by ending your own life. As for time lines, how fast one comes back, I think it is simply a matter of coming back when the timing and conditions are right for what is intended to be worked out or learned. Nothing is set in stone.
 
Since we are our own worst critics/judges, I think the punishment, if you can call it that, which results from suicide, is largely self-imposed. From a spiritual standpoint a suicide terminates all the intricate plans and interwoven karmic cycles intended to be completed in that lifetime...a mortal decision to end it all forces the other souls to "reshuffle the deck" (the exact term my guidance used regarding an early death at 17)...or those relying on the newly deceased individual to recalculate their plans or leave some plans for a later lifetime. The punishment is in realizing that you have let others down. I do believe that if "checking out early" becomes a habit in successive lives higher beings become involved for the sake of the soul as there is obviously an issue regarding the soul's ability to process some aspect of their learning.


In my case, that early death resulted in my return four and a half years later as the son of my previous sister. After dying in that car accident, which held only a small probability of occurring, I suffered anger as well as guilt due to not being able to take that life to term, and my rapid return was an effort to ameliorate a portion of the lost opportunity.


As I re-read this, I want to make clear that this is how I have seen it and my authority or expertise in this field is opinion at best and dead (!) wrong at worst.
 
Y'know, I was set to disregard that 60's memory, but the more I read, the more I got to thinking about that "face the problem again" statement. I think about that bout of depression and how I nearly deleted myself, and I wonder if that, not military service, was what I was intended to face. Handed the suicide solution again as I saw my life headed where I didn't want it to go, this time I didn't do it. This time I decided to hold on for the whole 8 seconds (rodeo reference!). When I came out on the other end, my situation was still the same, my life was still going where I didn't want it to go, the plans I had been striving to complete had still fallen apart, but this time I had the ability to surf along on the wreckage of my dreams and find new ones in the process. As each of those explode, I just keep surfing and finding others. Meh, who knows? Maybe had I hung around back in '66 I would have just been stuck at a supply depot stateside and even picked up a few marketable skills. But then I never would have met and married my husband and had this fantastic life I'm having now...


Guh-roovy, baby!$P$
 
My last life did not end in suicide but I did die suddenly at a young age. I have noticed that the circumstances that I was born into in this life are very similar to my last. Even though my death was accidental (to the best of my knowledge), I had made mistakes and was deeply depressed leading up to my death. Though I have had go-arounds with depression in this life, I now recognize ways that I have sidestepped some of the mistakes that I made in my last life. My current life is far from a ringing example of perfect, but I can at least hang my hat on knowing that I have learned from some past experiences.
 
Truthseeker, now as far as you are saying that those who die young or by suicide come back quickly. There was a story like this in one of Dr. Ian Stevenson's books onetime. I remember reading this story of someone he researched and had all of these past life memories, that this person in the past life committed suicide and he came back into the next life almost immediately, even almost to the second. The person was Lebanese or somewhere there near the Middle East. The person was basically the same person in many ways but one. In the previous life he smoked and in the present life he died not. Hope I remember right for it has been awhile. I think it is in his book of cases that are out of Lebanon. Now I used to have a bunch of Dr. Ian Stevenson's books including this one. For whatever it is worth.
 
If my 60's memory is correct then, I used that "instant reincarnation" as a tool to keep from going to Viet Nam. Rather than die in pain and terror, I went in peace. My goal was not to escape life but fate. I don't think I'd make that move again, though. It's kind of an extreme measure, and I have a much better view of things from here. Cruising with the currents that life sends me is a lot more fun.
 
kmatjhwy said:
Truthseeker, now as far as you are saying that those who die young or by suicide come back quickly. There was a story like this in one of Dr. Ian Stevenson's books onetime. I remember reading this story of someone he researched and had all of these past life memories, that this person in the past life committed suicide and he came back into the next life almost immediately, even almost to the second. The person was Lebanese or somewhere there near the Middle East. The person was basically the same person in many ways but one. In the previous life he smoked and in the present life he died not. Hope I remember right for it has been awhile. I think it is in his book of cases that are out of Lebanon. Now I used to have a bunch of Dr. Ian Stevenson's books including this one. For whatever it is worth.
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Thank you for sharing. It sounds like Dr. Weiss and Dr. Stevenson's findings are consistent with each other. From what I gather, it is the incompleteness and unfinished business of a life cut short that motivates a quick return.
 
Over the years I can honestly admit that I contemplated death on many occasions, not by my own actions, but by a self-destructive nature that held me in its influence until recent times. I never feared death, and from a very early time volunteered for the dangerous and not well-thought-out decisions of others.


By the time Vietnam raised its ugly head, I was beginning my second year at a great University. Near the end of that Semester I emptied my lockers and stuffed my belongings into a car, drove down to Detroit and signed up at the nearest recruiting office for a four-year enlistment with the U.S. Army. Two years later I was in Vietnam going through the Tet Offensive of 1968.


By the time I ended up in the hospital, I had seen enough to know that I didn't want to die any more under those circumstances, which were apparently leading our country down the wrong path. It seems that I had developed a strong conscience, which eagerly welcomed the Medical Discharge that the Army gave me. The medals I threw away, because they were earned while giving support to the Company of the 1/20 Battalion of the 11th Light Infantry Brigade, Americal Division -- the unit responsible for the Mai Lai Massacre.


After my return to civilian life came the heavy drinking and wild chance taking, which ended up nearly destroying another family along with my own. It was then that I realized how messy my demise would be for everyone else. I finally came to terms with my narcissistic drive for glory and honor in battle, which devolved into a narcissistic drive to escape responsibility.


Eventually, my passion for "going to the wall" on issues has subsided with the helpful influence of a family that I dearly love. But, some of that passion is still there. However, I am able to view it from a greater distance, and in so doing have realized that it is not that different from suicide, because it's so much like being pinned down under fire from the enemy. If one is pinned down long enough and running out of ammunition, someone always gets the idea to end the stalemate by jumping up and charging the ambush.


I believe that most suicides probably feel just as pinned down and under enemy fire. The only difference is that the soldier who charges the ambush and gets killed becomes a posthumous hero and is buried at Arlington, while the civilian suicide receives a small and very quiet funeral with limited burial rights. The families of both cases are equally heartbroken.


I don't believe the suicides are punished in the afterlife. We all signed up for tough assignments by just living on this earth with all the death, taxes and lies from politicians. We all do our duty up to a point,and doing so deserves praise, whether we complete our job or not.
 
"Limited burial rights"? Please educate me. My aunt Sue killed herself and was buried in the same manner as any of my family who died of other causes.
 
Shiftkitty said:
"Limited burial rights"? Please educate me. My aunt Sue killed herself and was buried in the same manner as any of my family who died of other causes.
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Until recent times christian churches would not permit funerals or burials in the church or on church grounds. The Catholic church has changed their rules, but some pastors of other denominations still refuse to preside at such funerals. Although western culture has become more liberal and understanding, many families I have known still behave as if suicide of a loved one reflected negatively upon them.


As a Veteran, I have known many people who have lost hope and chosen to leave this life by a variety of methods, and I have witnessed the difficulties their families have encountered at the hands of Church, Society and the Government. Your family is fortunate to have not suffered as other have.
 
Ah, okay. Auntie Sue is buried at Oak Hill Cemetery, which isn't administered by any particular church that I know of. All manner of faiths are buried there. I'm sorry to hear that some people can deny these tortured souls even basic compassion.
 
Interesting.


I did actually start a thread like this some time ago, but it was pulled and I got my wrist slapped for it. :confused:


Perhaps the rules on this sort of topic have changed....


Anyway, I also have to disagree with the OP on this.


From what I've read on NDEs, I've not encountered anything that suggests souls that commit suicide are "punished" for doing so. To my mind, this way of thinking seems somewhat mired in the dogma of fundamentalist christianity, which of course damns all suicides to hell (i.e. "punishment"). Thus, unless you believe in a punitive christian god, then why would you expect those who take their lives to be punished for it?


No, from what I have read at least, people who commit suicide aren't necessarily treated any differently and are offered the same opportunity to come back and learn the lesson they tried to escape. As others have pointed out, the worst "punishment" for suicide is the pain caused to those left behind.
 
One problem I have with coming back being a punishment (aside from being a generally optimistic person who doesn't see life as a burden or a tribulation but a gift and a party) is that people who get murdered and come back instantly to finish whatever they had to do are therefore also being punished, n'est pas? Innocent children who die whether at the hands of strangers or of those who are supposed to be caring for them surely merit no punishment! As one who believes that life begins at conception, the unborn are even moreso innocent. Yet we do hear stories of these souls coming back quickly.


I don't believe that returning is a punishment of any sort. My last life, if the story is real, used the mechanism to avoid war (and for all I know I intentionally came back as a female to further avoid getting drafted should the case arise again!). "Stepping outside" and coming back in to start again from square one wasn't a punishment. If anything, it was a reward of sorts. (Disclaimer again: Don't do it. It's way too extreme a measure and I missed a lot of great stuff having to go back to the beginning. I so totally would have been at Woodstock! I have no clue what family I may have left behind or how they would have felt knowing that I had OD'd and was being carried out from the back of a run-down apartment behind a head shop, and I sure hope that chick didn't get into any trouble for it. I think I set it up so she'd be okay.)


I think we come back if we want to or need to. Once we're on the other side, we can't lie to ourselves. We can't cross our arms, pout our lips and say we're not going back. In a moment of horrendously ugly honesty, we look at ourselves and say either "Job well done!" and hang out until we feel a need or urge to reurn, or else we say "All right. Let's go back and try that again" and get right back to work. I guess being irreligious I don't have a sensation of being judged, weighed, or anything other than guided and counselled (don't ask by what) but otherwise left to my own designs.
 
Ok, I have committed suicide in a past life. As I meditated on Elaine's life more, I realized that instead of accidentally drowning, I drowned myself in a moment of heated passion and heartbreak. My beau had been killed and I was utterly distraught.


I didn't even know consciously but my subconscious told me that I was with child as well when he died. What was a 16 year old girl to do in the 1860's being with child and unmarried? My family would be disgraced. my father was well-respected and I did not want to dishonor him.


Being without the man I loved tore my heart to pieces. I chose to go to the river near our plantation after a large storm that night and walked straight in, corset, petticoats, dress and all. The heavy cotton clothing weighed me down and the water soon covered my entire body. I panicked as i realized my mortality but knew it was too late and that it wouldn't matter anyway. I passed away, and for a brief moment, I had an out-of-body experience and saw myself drifting with the current. I felt horrible for making my parents suffer my loss, but my selfish pain made it bearable .


I have had a hard life in this lifetime (in my own personal view on how I handle things). I even came to the precipice of escaping life again, but my little brother saved me. My younger brother in this life has always had the habit of waking me in the mornings and crawling in bed with me if he has a bad dream. I couldn't bear the thought of him being the first to see me dead. It would scar him past repair. I know how he ticks. I would destroy him with my own self-destruction. Thus I suffered through my trials (not happily, mind you) and here I sit, nearly five years later and I am still breathing.
 
And perhaps by putting your brother's feelings first, you also accounted for the baby that you took with you that other time?


I had heard an account once of a woman who attempted suicide. She was describing her NDE as seeing two beautiful children crying. She knew she had hurt them somehow, but didn't know who they were. She had no children of her own. She said they held their hands out to her pleadingly and she then realized that these were the two children whose lives she was denying them. After she was rescued from her attempt and got therapy, she went on with her life, got married, and when she finally did have children, they looked almost exactly like they had in her NDE.


Weird, huh?
 
I agree with Nighttrain(John?) that those who commit suicide reincarnate again.


However, if one were to commit suicide, full of anger, hate, sadness, despair, I'd made a haphazard guess that those strong emotions would haunt you into your next life.


In fact, forbidding a person from reincarnating would feel counterproductive to the process as I feel we are meant to learn and evolve in this existence and not get stuck in some limbo. If anything it would be even more important to reincarnate again to make sure we learn.


I know that I personally have been killed and committed suicide multiple times at a young age which has left their mark on me in this life. I've lived so short lives that I feel kinda lost in this life having been allowed to reach the age of 32. When I think I might be having 30-40 years ahead of me(barring any health problems) I get overwhelmed. A part of me doesn't want to live that long because of the overwhelming length of time.


I also wanted to touch upon the egotistical nature of suicide. If we take into account that we might all be a shared soul experiencing itself subjectively(a paraphrase from Bill Hicks) I wonder if suicide could be a hard lesson that we are imparting upon the world and future selves. People commit suicide due to various reasons that are based on personality, life encounters, and interactions. Suicide doesn't happen in a vacuum and if we are our brother's(sister's) keeper we should all aim to help each other, to make paradise on earth a reality so when we are reborn we will be reborn into an earthly heaven(I am a bit of a romantic).


Just to elaborate, there are a lot of conditions and acts that hurt family and friends, but are also a part of us as an advancing species. I am a trans-woman and it is not uncommon that coming out of the closet as LGBT hurts family and friends who can't handle that act(spirituality is also increasingly high with transwomen). For them it is a great shame put on people and can leave scars.
 
Mystery of Reincarnation


I signed onto the boards in 2003 and what led me here was a mystery that had revealed itself to me again - after being hidden away in the unconscious since 1988. It was beyond logic and defied reason - even when it came to reincarnation. My cousin committed suicide in 1988. My nephew was born in 1988. I had a near death experience in 1988. It was a very traumatic year for me.


I went to the library during that time to try and confirm what had been revealed to me in 'dreams and visions' as well as the NDE. I read a couple of books that had case studies. This was prior to Carol's work being published. There was another author who had done cases studies and was included in a reference to Ian Stevenson. That is when I learned there was scientfic inquiry into such claims.


But I shared the full story when I first came to the boards, but it has been lost in the shuffle since then.


I wrote out a post on my blog that outlines the 'mystical' and mysterious side of the events leading up to what gave me the idea of my cousin being reincarnated as my nephew that year and how it was later confirmed when (at the age of 11) my nephew made statements that led to my own confirmation and made it a 'fact' for me instead of a theory.


"Mystery of Reincarnation."


It deals specifically with what was revealed to me through a mystery of what happened to the 'spirit' of my cousin after he committed suicide.


DK
 
Inphanta said:
Interesting.
I did actually start a thread like this some time ago, but it was pulled and I got my wrist slapped for it. :confused:


Perhaps the rules on this sort of topic have changed....


Anyway, I also have to disagree with the OP on this.


From what I've read on NDEs, I've not encountered anything that suggests souls that commit suicide are "punished" for doing so. To my mind, this way of thinking seems somewhat mired in the dogma of fundamentalist christianity, which of course damns all suicides to hell (i.e. "punishment"). Thus, unless you believe in a punitive christian god, then why would you expect those who take their lives to be punished for it?


No, from what I have read at least, people who commit suicide aren't necessarily treated any differently and are offered the same opportunity to come back and learn the lesson they tried to escape. As others have pointed out, the worst "punishment" for suicide is the pain caused to those left behind.
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I agree that the negative aspect of suicide(not trying to say it is positive either) is bound mostly to religious establishments.


A person committing suicide doesn't do so in vacuum and if there was some damnation to the act that would mean that those who are really down on luck in their current life are playing with the cards stacked against them.


Just as an example take a person who might have some horrible pain wracking his body for the next 30-40 years and nothing can alleviate that pain. Everybody else can enjoy life without this pain, but this person can't so he kills himself. Does he deserve to be damned for it? In my opinion he doesn't considering that he was getting the same chances as anyone else.


Also, this can be a sensitive subject to many people who have lost loved ones due to this. My oldest friend lost his dad when we were 18 to suicide and I know how deeply it can affect individuals around.
 
A person who willingly dies to save another is also committing suicide. Should they be damned? If so, where does that leave Jesus, whom we are taught sacrificed himself to save our souls? Indeed, where does that leave any martyr?


It can be a disturbing question, and I don't think giving some people a pass because their hearts were in the right place or because they represented a certain holy agency is going to sit well.
 
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