Stories and Consequences of Past Life Vows

[SeaAndSky]

One of the things that has become of interest to me on this board is the role of what I will call “soul vows” initiated during a PL and having a continuing impact on future lives (including often the present life) of the one making the vow. It generally seems to take the form of a renunciation, denunciation, and/or annunciation of something the person seems to intend to be a “permanent” decision or intention. These are decisions, determinations and acts of the will that seem to transcend the normal types of vows and decisions made during a life and reach all the way down (or up) to the soul, spirit, SELF, or whatever you want to call the part of ourselves that transcends particular incarnations and continues after death. Often they seem to be associated with a point of extreme stress in a lifetime, and seem especially to be a product of death—most often that of the one making the vow, but sometimes it can be the death of another.

I used to hear about vows stronger than death, but they usually had to do with something quite different (typically spooky returns from the grave in horror movies and so forth). In this case, however, it seems to me that the continuing impact of the vow is pretty obvious and, though less eerie, no less profound. I may be wrong, but these types of vows seem to come into play in the accounts of Tanguerra, Deborah, and John Tat. They may certainly be present in other accounts, but I haven’t read enough to know at this point.

They are also very striking and dramatic both in the circumstances of their initiation and their continuing impact beyond the death of the original principles—often in very different circumstances. Tanguerra (a man at the time) kneels beside the dead body of the husband of “X” (who was a charming but rather fickle and feckless female at the time). He has just killed her husband in a duel brought on by his affair with “X” and pledges something akin to everlasting devotion to “X” so that what he has just done will not seem so utterly meaningless. (Centuries and lives later, Tanguerra (now a female) has a continuing, but somewhat problematic relationship with “X” (now a male, but still apparently a bit fickle)). Deborah (then a white male) is dying of cold and starvation due to the acts of white males along with the Indians who adopted him and whom he loves. He apparently renounces white maleness at his death. Centuries and lives pass, and Deborah has remained female, though the initial decision against “whiteness” seems to have faded over time. John Tat, a pilot dying rather horribly during WWII denounces and renounces God, a pledge that has remained with him in his present life. There are probably many more, but I am curious about people who have similar tales to tell. I am also curious about the fact that some aspects of a pledge (such as Deborah’s) seem to be fading, but others remain intact. I am also interested in this topic because I may be dealing with something similar in regard to a PL.

So, I’m interested in stories from your own experience and comments on the phenomenon. (Likewise, of course, corrections from Tang, Deb and John if I have misrepresented their respective stories).

SeaAndSky

 

[tanguerra]

Tanguerra (a man at the time) kneels beside the dead body of the husband of “X” (who was a charming but rather fickle and feckless female at the time). He has just killed her husband in a duel brought on by his affair with “X” and pledges something akin to everlasting devotion to “X” so that what he has just done will not seem so utterly meaningless. (Centuries and lives later, Tanguerra (now a female) has a continuing, but somewhat problematic relationship with “X” (now a male, but still apparently a bit fickle)).

That summary is fine S&S. Personally, I wouldn't say the 'vow' is fading. I still feel the same way about X, much to my own bemusement sometimes. I also think, recalling the thoughts and feelings of the Count as I do, that somehow I knew there was something 'special' about X at the time, but I didn't understand why.


The moment I first saw her in Poland, in a crowded salon, and our eyes met, is so much like all the other times I first remember seeing him/her and meeting those same eyes, that mischievous half smile, that old feeling. But, of course, I didn't know what was happening to me then, as I did not have the 'gift' or would have known what it was if I did, most likely. I don't know if I knew what I felt exactly.


So, the 'vow' I made to love her always was not something I just came up with out of nowhere I don't think. I think somehow I was trying to make sense of how I felt - so drawn to her, not being able to help it and not liking that feeling very much, especially given what followed from it. It was also part of the culture of the day to make gestures like that, to protect one's sense of honour. It was just something silly romantic young men did.


I don't think it has any magic power or anything now really, except to encapsulate how I felt at that moment pretty cogently. The way I feel about X precedes the 'vow' and doesn't need a vow to make it keep happening. It just is (even when he's very naughty indeed).

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Tang,


You must be trying to mess up the air of ominous portent I was trying to build up here! Anyhow, though it’s interesting in a melodramatic sort of way to think of the "dying curse" resonating down through the centuries (cue spooky organ music here), I think all of these declarations (as in your case) probably had substantial advanced build-up. I can see that clearly in Deborah's account as well.


So, probably none of these declarations come out of the blue, but are the result of the development of a very strong and abiding conviction (or determination) that was finally voiced as a result of or as part of a crisis. I'm not sure whether it is the conviction or its expression that is really important here, and I’m not sure it matters.


Also, your situation involves love (eros) instead of . . . well . . . hate. From that standpoint, it is different in many respects, but otherwise I think it shows the continuing impact of a conclusion or determination down through and across multiple subsequent lives. In addition, I just couldn't leave out such a great story--it resonates with the Victorian romantic in me I suppose.


Nonetheless, I still see similarities. My operating hypothesis (in the two cases where enough time has passed to make a difference) is that there is a continuing (but not necessarily everlasting) impact that is hopefully softened through the passing of time and growth of wisdom in subsequent lives. In terms of you and X, though I haven't gone through the whole tale, I note in the present “you” a certain whimsical humor and patience in conjunction with a good helping of worldly-wise (and occasionally world-weary) wisdom in regard to your relationship that I could not have imagined in the soldier of so many years ago. With Deborah, an initial (and pretty horrific) life as a black female slave was the first result, but subsequent lives seem to have once again brought a softening. My ideas are not all sorted out here, but that’s the angle or approach I’m looking into. With John, it’s too early in the process to tell very much.


S&S


PS—Actually, now that I think of it, I wonder if this line of thought might be better applied to your previous lifetime, where you were murdered as a child and came back as a soldier bent on revenge. Here as well I detect a growth of wisdom and serenity marked by the change between yourself then and the anti-war and anti-violence person you are now.

 

[Mere Dreamer]

Hmm. This is interesting.


I had a past life where I (as a child) was attempting to be a moral guide to my PL father. In the memory, after he strangled me in a ditch for following him and attempting to stop him from cheating on my mother, I rose up as a ghost and followed him to his meeting with some woman in town, still wanting to make him into a decent man.


While ending the regression section I shifted into a vision/conversation about the strong connection that remained between myself and the father-soul who is my abusive ex in this life. I spent the entire marriage attempting to be good enough to convince him to be good also. It took 15 years to realize that I was attempting to control him by tolerating his treatment in hopes he would regret it and change.


In the vision, I looked down and realized that there was a heavy cord connecting us, perhaps my obsessive desire to alter his conscience or some such thing. All I knew is that it represented my attempts to take personal responsibility for his character, and that this obsession was unnatural and his character was none of my business. I was investing my energy in a manipulative way, and it was a dark and rotting connection.


It was a choice I could and did unmake by use of a convenient sword within the vision. It crumbled the intention/cord to black dust. Since then, my ex has been unable to affect me emotionally and his personal choices are no longer a threat to my emotional stability (when he isn't actively attempting to harm the family). He isn't even a significant character in dreams anymore.


I think the choice to love functions differently as a PL connection, and tends to be healthy and healing for both sides. Those connections, when they appear visually in meditation, are generally strands or cords of light, and I notice they are sourced outside of us both. We merely share resources that have been given to us, and do not take on provision for each other as though we were the primary source of each other's solutions.


My

 

[tanguerra]

PS—Actually, now that I think of it, I wonder if this line of thought might be better applied to your previous lifetime, where you were murdered as a child and came back as a soldier bent on revenge. Here as well I detect a growth of wisdom and serenity marked by the change between yourself then and the anti-war and anti-violence person you are now.

Yes. After having read hundreds of people's accounts, and including my own experiences, I'm beginning to think that previous life intentions, or wishes, are often acted out in the next life. Whether it is to be reunited with loved ones, or to right a wrong, or have something we didn't have before, such as a family or fame or whatever it might be, it seems that people often get what they wish for. So, like in the fairytales, it's wise to be careful and wish for something 'good' or you might end up with a toad instead of the pearls you were hoping for?


I don't know if there is any 'magic' involved in all this, other than there is when you got to bed with an intention of doing something or other the next day. You may actually get to do it. You may be waylaid for some reason, or change your mind or something else happens that gets in the way. But if your intention is strong enough, you will get round to it.


Perhaps this is the value of 'vows' and 'prayers' and 'curses' for that matter - to give extra energy to an intention we might feel in response to powerful emotions. Perhaps we might go to bed angry, but then wake up less bothered by whatever it was, because in our dreams, we have been able to work through it? Perhaps it's the same with past life wishes and intentions?


Just a thought.

 

[tanguerra]

It was a choice I could and did unmake by use of a convenient sword within the vision. It crumbled the intention/cord to black dust. Since then, my ex has been unable to affect me emotionally and his personal choices are no longer a threat to my emotional stability (when he isn't actively attempting to harm the family). He isn't even a significant character in dreams anymore.

Perhaps your intention now is to never see him again ever? It would be mine!

 

[tanguerra]

Hi Tang,
You must be trying to mess up the air of ominous portent I was trying to build up here! Anyhow, though it’s interesting in a melodramatic sort of way to think of the "dying curse" resonating down through the centuries (cue spooky organ music here)

I prefer a sound track more like this.... For me it has the sense of a long and exciting journey, full of surprises.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Mere Dreamer,


Perhaps it is no more than a yearning in some cases, but what I mostly see in these situations is a concrete determination or intent--generally misguided--that casts a heavy shadow over subsequent lives.


Tang would probably dispute the "misguided" and "shadow" aspect of that statement in terms of X, but as noted, her case with X is somewhat different than most of what I'm looking at or for here--which is mainly how our "mistakes" of this type in prior lives continue to impact us. I.e., mistakes not in actual actions taken (the usual "karmic" reap what you sow type of situation), but "merely" in terms of ill-advised judgments and decisions re something that we carry forward with us and somehow have to overcome in future lives. Hmmm. Maybe we should refer to these as "acts of the mind or heart" in contrast to "acts of the body".


Anyhow, this is certainly true where "bad" intentions and determinations are made, but it also seems to be true where the "decision" is merely misguided--as in your case. One can usually see the chain of causation when the road to "hell" is paved with bad intentions. Your account shows that the road to "hell" can be paved with "good" albeit misguided intentions re the person (soul) in question.


S&S

 

[John Tat]

For someone who has just discovered how I died last time my views and opinions may be relevant. Most of my life I have been angry, not at people but at whatever it is that makes all of us and the world possible. It is not a god, but there is something there that has gone terribly wrong, just not for me but for everyone. I have believed that all of my life. As I said long before I knew how I died, I have felt I'm on a different path to all of you. Now I know how I died it makes some sense, and would certainly be a part of what is going on with me.


Whatever has gone wrong must be fixed so everything can be put back to how it should have always been.


I have no idea how or who or what will do that in the future


All I know is, it must and will be done

 

[tanguerra]

Whatever has gone wrong must be fixed so everything can be put back to how it should have always been.
I have no idea how or who or what will do that in the future. All I know is, it must and will be done

I think a lot of people go from one life into the next with a strong sense of injustice and a desire to do something about it. I have read stories for instance, of people who lost someone to disease or injury in one life and felt powerless to do anything about it. In the next life they decided to become a doctor so they could find the cure and various stories of this nature. Certainly there is my own story of Poland, when I felt powerless as a little girl and was filled with a fury at the injustice that was vented the next life.


At the moment, in my life, I have had numerous forward flashes to a future life, which I started a thread on: The Future. I started having these even before I got particularly interested in politics in this life. I've been having future flashes for a while and becoming increasingly worried about the state of the world and wanting to do something about it.


X has an influence too of course. We often talk about politics, and the future, and what needs to change. His views tend to involve flying cars, robots and magic wrinkle creams ( ) but I'm more interested in restructuring society, warfare and economics to make them better, less destructive and fairer. He has views on these things too, of course. He's not a complete flibberty jibbert.


So, this life I've started studying up on politics and getting involved hands on in various ways so I can learn more about the nuts and bolts of it all. I hope that next life, even if I don't remember, some of this skill will carry over and I will be a 'natural' at it from an early age and will follow a clear path that puts me in a position to do something about the world's problems. It certainly feels like the right thing to do and it amuses me.

 

[Mere Dreamer]

Perhaps your intention now is to never see him again ever? It would be mine!

I do hope he goes about his lifetimes somewhere completely unrelated to me. Heh!

our "mistakes" of this type in prior lives continue to impact us. I.e., mistakes not in actual actions taken (the usual "karmic" reap what you sow type of situation), but "merely" in terms of ill-advised judgments and decisions re something that we carry forward with us and somehow have to overcome in future lives. Hmmm. Maybe we should refer to these as "acts of the mind or heart" in contrast to "acts of the body".

S&S, I think that's the point of remembering, perhaps? I don't think I'd have been aware enough to "let go" if I hadn't gone through the whole process with him.


Trying and failing taught me so much more about accepting people "as they are" by experience, and of course I wasn't accepted "as I am" by him, either. We mirrored those destructive expectations to each other in our relationship in a very powerful way. So I both tried and failed to make him a different person, and experienced what it is like to be treated that way myself, though in a far harsher way.


I feel like what I've been learning from these experiences is sinking into me in this life. Maybe that's why I'm remembering past lives this time around? I don't know.


I don't remember consciously developing on a spiritual level in some of my past lives. During those times living was more about experiencing certain qualities of relationship or perspective to the fullest.


I think only in the "goddess" life did I feel as spiritually aware and connected as I am now. And I have this feeling that her life ended with a painful shock, feeling betrayed, though I haven't remembered what it was. So maybe that shock initiated the lives I've been remembering, exploring various facets of the spiritual question she asked at the end of that life.


I've been primarily male, often gay, usually controlled/protected by someone more socially powerful, and I tended to be worshipful of the person who cared for me in romantic/social relationships.


It seems there were quite a few lives where I was raped at least once, which changed the course of each life in a significant way. Choosing a different nobleman to serve in the Japanese life; as a European boy becoming the life-long servant of my rescuer; eventually dying from the depression and shock in the Mediterranean life; marrying someone who habitually treated me that way in this life. I'm pretty sure it was part of my previous female life, also.


There are common themes in those lives, all of which come together in retrospect to make a clear point: tolerating social or personal abuse in hope of being accepted, or the desire to belong to a group (or person) at any cost is destructive.


In contrast I'm realizing we are all interconnected and meant to be unique demonstrations of life experience within that connection. We enter life with all we need to build constructive, generous relationships, and it is a process of learning to believe this and live in a generous way instead of depending on others for their crumbs.


I "already had" what I was looking for from others. I could have maintained inner independence and offered reasonable terms for mutual support, instead of accepting destructive expectations in exchange. And seeing this would have protected me from a lot of the pain in those lives, especially committing seppuku in the Japanese life.


I hope that makes sense?

 

[SeaAndSky]

Great posts from all. I'm more likely to read posts on a board than join one, but either way, I don't recall ever reading board posts that were as consistently well written, intelligent and wise/irenic as those I find on this board. Generally speaking, I have found the first two on quite a few "high-brow" boards of one type or another, but wise and irenic is another matter. This is a great board on which to listen and learn from others. I always have the feeling that when I "cast bread upon the waters" it is very likely to come back multiplied many fold. As asides:


Tang, I hope you can be the one to turn "practical progressivism" into something more than an oxymoron. I think it is possible, but dang little of it is around over here in the U.S.


Mere, I especially liked what you said about remembering past lives in order to finally get out of some of our ruts and wrong ways of thinking and doing. The old adage is that those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it. It makes me wonder whether this is not one of the best reasons to remember PLs. I particularly sense that it could be of great benefit to me personally for this reason.


John, as always, with certain reservations, I agree with most everything you have to say. One of my most important reservations is about "who" should be blamed and/or is responsible for how screwed up the world is. As far as I'm concerned, we don't have to go farther than our bathroom mirrors to find out.


Best to all,


S&S

 

[John Tat]

Religion has a lot to answer for. Belief in religions has not only killed hundreds of millions of people it also justifies the killing. Those who kill are blessed by the priests before they go and kill. Not only do the priests bless the killers but they also bless the tools of war


That is just one area where religion has plenty to answer for

 

[SeaAndSky]

John,


Isn’t all of that a bit naïve, especially for someone like you that has “experience” enough to know the real answer?


First, in terms of religion, it’s a bit like a 3 year old blaming the stick he just used to hit his compatriot for the deed rather than himself. People are the ones that turn things into weapons to advance their own interests and hurt other people—just like the airplane you were flying when you died was turned into a weapon by having guns added for that purpose. Death and destruction wasn’t the necessary purpose of an airplane—people turned it to that purpose, just like they change everything they can to such purposes. I do not know of any major religion (excluding Islam) that has such a purpose in itself. People use things for evil that were not meant for evil—that is a fact of life. It doesn’t do any good to blame the stick—blame the one who wields it.


Second, we are the ones responsible for evil committed in this world, past and present. In terms of the past, we can’t blame the ones who came before unless we’re also willing to blame ourselves because we were among the ones that came before. If, as your experience seems to indicate, Humanity is collectively going through many lives, the ones who did the things that you are complaining about in the past may be here now or they may be between lives—they may even include you or me—but they are still “us” collectively and individually. Do you see people right now abusing religion for their own purposes? Do you think people in the past were any different? Do you think you were any different? Are you the only one without sin, if not on this point, then on some other? I remember (probably from “Autobiography of a Yogi”) the words of an advanced soul saying something to the effect that the “past lives of all men are dark with sin.” I agree. It’s one of the things that people have to cope with as they recover PL memories. If your past sins did not include abuse of religion for your own ends you are lucky, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Once again, the problem is in people, not the stick they wield or wielded.


(CONT'D)

 

[SeaAndSky]

(CONT'D FROM ABOVE)


Third, you act like you don’t have a religion. You most assuredly do. Do you think the fact that you are looking to your highest self as your “deity” at this particular point in your many iterations rather than an “outside” deity makes what you are doing and your beliefs something other than a religion? Guess again. Do you think someone else claiming to practice your “religion” could not commit all kinds of horrible things in the “name” of your religion? Once again, this would show a great deal of naivete (which I don’t think you have). Would he be actually practicing your religion, or something different? Should you blame your religion for his falsehoods and evils, or the person committing such falsehoods and evils? The answer is clear.


In fact, I think in all of these things you have simply blinded yourself to the facts you already know in your heart. There was an old cartoon named POGO. One of the characters wisely states in one panel something like: “We have met the enemy and he is us.” We are the ones responsible, not the instrumentalities we use for our wrongful purposes. If what “Mere” has hypothesized is correct, PL memories like yours may be a way your higher self is bringing something to your attention that you need to work on. You should, at least, think about the possibility.


S&S

 

[Obie]

. All I knew is that it represented my attempts to take personal responsibility for his character, and that this obsession was unnatural and his character was none of my business. I was investing my energy in a manipulative way, and it was a dark and rotting connection.

Mere Dreamer, I had some energy work done recently and I discovered that my theme for my current life, this incarnation is that I can only control my actions and not the actions of those around me. It was a huge lesson to be learned. The way you were with your PL father, you were trying to get him to be a faithful husband and good father, thats how I am with my current life mother. I reincarnated in this life to teach my family and serve as their teacher, but then I discovered I can not control their behavior. What a paradox isnt it?


Ever since I was a child, I tried to control my environment. Finally a couple weeks ago during energy work, I discovered I dont have good results if I try and control my environment.


So now I'm just concentrating on letting the Universe take control.


Another weird thing -- Mere Dreamer-- for some reason your PLs really hit home for me. Just felt a weird familiarity connection with your PL's like I could relate to how you felt. You just seemed like someone I'd be friends with in this life if I met you. (Dont worry I'm a straight woman, and have no intention of hitting on you )

 

[John Tat]

Seaand Sky


I agree with most of what you said. But you cannot get away from the fact that God's representatives on earth (priests and ministers) are an important and active participant's in war. Its exactly the same as abortion. If God's representatives on earth were who they claim to be then all would be vocal opponents


to both abortion and war and would not stand by and allow them to happen, let alone participate. They would in God's name join together as one and do everything they could to stop them. I understand that they the priests and ministers believe they are helping the men who fight by bringing god to them in those terrible times. But to tell these men god will help and protect them when they go out to kill makes my point.


You are also right in the fact I turn to my pure self, nobody or nothing else.


Regards


John Tat

 

[tanguerra]

Religion has a lot to answer for. Belief in religions has not only killed hundreds of millions of people it also justifies the killing. Those who kill are blessed by the priests before they go and kill. Not only do the priests bless the killers but they also bless the tools of war
That is just one area where religion has plenty to answer for

There is a reason why we don't discuss religion or politics in the forum, that is because it leads to heated arguments that are not usually helpful in exploring the topic of reincarnation. So, unless you have something to say that contributes to the topic of this thread, it's best to leave general discussions of religion and politics for another arena.

 

[tanguerra]

...We are the ones responsible, not the instrumentalities we use for our wrongful purposes....

Indeed. Perhaps if humans are to evolve, we will need to examine our own hearts in more detail and stop trying to blame God (however you conceive Her) or the 'government' or 'evil people' or anything else for the unwise things we do.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Tang,


As always, thanks for your input. I definitely agree in terms of taking responsibility being the way forward, but I don't think that John and I are arguing at this point or likely to do so.


I’m actually just trying to determine where exactly John is coming from on this thing. Believe me, when I argue I can be a lot more ascerbic. Also, as you can see from our mutual declarations, we agree on most everything and we’re keeping this pretty cordial. I respect John and his opinions and I think he generally respects me and mine. So, I wouldn’t say we are arguing at this point. Believe me, if it develops in that direction, I will cut it off myself.


However, you and John may as well know where I am going with this. First, I do believe this relates to the topic of the thread. One of the most salient features of John’s PL memory of death is what seems to be a very forceful denunciation and renunciation of God and religion. This act and its continuing impact in his current life is very much the topic of this thread. (Once again, I’m not particularly concerned with this from a “religious” standpoint—only in terms of a probable PL scenario). Second, when pressed (and excluding an unrelated concern with abortion), it seems that his particular concern and enmity is directed towards “official” representatives of “official” religion who encourage or act as part of a war effort, specifically “ministers” and “priests".


However, aside from the fact that John incorrectly and emotionally generalizes that the things that he detests in these individuals should be ascribed to the God they claim to represent and religion in general, I think that John’s conclusion and adamantine posture on this point can only be based in his PL rather than his current life. I.e., the role of liberal ministers and priests in anti-war efforts and causes both before and particularly since the Vietnam war would make this an impossible conclusion for anyone to make (leaving out "Imams" and the like) unless their attention was focused before the modern post 1960 era. So, in general, his vehemence is very "retro" and directed at the same types that would have formed the standard representative of official religion (and the military chaplain’s core) that "ministered" to him at the time of his PL death. If he focuses on this fact, he will not only be on sounder ground (philosophically speaking), but he may be able to recover a PL memory directly related to the people who took this stance in his PL.


All the best,


S&S

 

[John Tat]

HI SeaAnd Sky


You are right once again. Deep down I know I was a believer last time. I even think it may go deeper than that. There is every possibility my father was a minister in the church. So I would have been brought up especially in those days a very religious and strong believer


I have had visions of being ministered to on board a ship, so I must have thought by doing so god would be protected me. That comes across very strongly to me that I did trust god


I know I did renounce god as I was dying


There is no possibility I will in this life and if I still have memories of how I died last time in future incarnations will I ever be a believer in god again.. That is a fact


Regards


John tat

 

[kmatjhwy]

Now for awhile have been meaning to post on this thread for have found this thread interesting. For what it is worth, it seems in a past life I was a Franciscan Monk in the middle ages. At times when I look at this present life, it seems as if those vows that I made as a Franciscan Monk are still operating on some level it seems. But in this life am not an Catholic or such so I have found this interesting. Do have questions on this as is if it is really the old vows that are still operating or some other various factor. Now it seems in my past lives have at times have pursued sometimes a more spiritual or religious with living a more simple life it seems. Wishing Everyone the Best!

 

[Mere Dreamer]

I reincarnated in this life to teach my family and serve as their teacher, but then I discovered I can not control their behavior. What a paradox isnt it?

It feels like a paradox, doesn't it. I think the joy of teaching is in finding someone who wants to learn what you are offering. Sometimes the timing or the techniques are off, and in that case it is better to resort to trying to understand the student or backing off completely and letting them know you're fine with letting them learn from experience, too.


I'm glad you appreciate my experiences, too. Thank you, Obie. I'm sure we'd have fun if we met. I wasn't worried, just interested in your reasoning. You made me LOL

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi John,


I'm not surprised, but the main thing is that this seemed to be a hump that needed to be overcome in order to go forward (or backward from your PL death) with additional PL recall. It seems you now know and/or suspect a lot more about what you and your PL family and background was like. As for the religious part, it is what it is, nothing more and nothing less--just something from the past--not who you are now. It is certainly not anything as devastating as some people have to deal with, though it may seem a bit distasteful to you. So, no point in not letting more memories come to the surface as they will.


The interesting thing to me is that you may get some more info, such as names or religious denomination info that will allow you to really nail down additional details accessible somewhere in public records. If you can determine a locale and name you can probably find yourself and your family in U.S. census records online. This was not so long ago in terms of PL material. It's quite possible you can even locate some photos of your PL self and/or family online. So, you have a lot you can find out if you wish to look for it.


Best,


S&S


PS--Everyone is different, and maybe none of this will result in any changes on your part. For me, the PL stuff that has come out in my case--even though very limited and tentative--has kinda turned my world upside down. I would never have imagined myself saying the things I now say on this board a couple of years ago, or even being on a website like this.


PPS--I'd love to get more info from you at some point on the whole lucid dreaming and "traveling" thing.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Kmat,


The term "Vows" was probably a bad choice of words on my part, especially since many of the things we're talking about may never have been spoken aloud. They may have been, but that would probably have been at the conclusion (usually) of a process that led to a determination, decision, conclusion, and/or etc. intended or believed by you in a PL to have lasting or "permanent" effect. The main thing is that these are acts of the will, mind, heart, intentions, etc. that occurred in a PL that have had continuing impact on subsequent lives. Sometimes causing problems and needing to be overcome, but not always.


I think the impulses that may have led you to become a Franciscan and take monastic vows, such as a desire and commitment to simplicity, helping others, piety, etc. might well have a continuing effect and fall into the category we're talking about here. These seem like good vows to me, though I imagine they were not always congruent with future life realities.


Best,


S&S

 

[SeaAndSky]

John,


Another thought occurred to me, given your PL background and what you presently think or believe was told and/or promised to you then, you may not only be reacting to the fact that you died when you thought you had some guarantee of safety and preservation. A real bone of contention would be the fact that you are here at all. That could be an even bigger source of your sense of the wrongness of everything and bitterness towards those you believe misled you. (Of course, you probably already know this, but I hadn't thought of it myself until now).


I had wondered a bit about your very strong sense of betrayal in terms of death--after all, your experience now is that death is not a permanent thing, so why such a big deal. However, a bigger "promise" was probably violated than that. By the teachings you received in your PL religious context, you should be in "heaven" right now--not back again slogging through the mire and mud of another lifetime in this much less than ideal world.


I can definitely understand and empathize with that. I have come to feel the same way about much of what constitutes physical life in this world. Ceridwen, another poster, seems to believe that she doesn't have to come back, the decision is up to her, and she doesn't intend to. I don't necessarily disagree, but I think that even if true at some point, it is a bit more like college. I.e., one may not be "required" to return at the end of each term, but one won't continue and complete their course of study and advancement unless and until they do. Of course, the time hopefully comes for "graduation", but I don't have any reason to believe I'm close to that--at least by any objective measurement I can think of.


S&S

 

[John Tat]

SeaAndSky


As you know I believe we are three separate identities in one but connected The physical, the pure self and soul. The pure self and soul reincarnates The pure self reincarnates with memory while the soul is the life force that makes all things possible


I think most believe the pure and/or spiritual them is separate from the physical body. it's all a matter of interpretation


My pure self travels. The physical me and soul does not.


As you would know when we talk about and ask questions about our previous lives and our connections to them, we are actually talking about our pure self's. Billy and Fred (your Fred) not the physical us Sea And Sky and John Tat


I believe my pure self has used this incarnation as a consolidation incarnation. In other words he has taken a deep breath and assessed everything and has gone about organizing himself for future incarnations.


He has travelled any times. He chooses to be educated and to learn. You see its all about him not the physical. I was taught that in a very profound way after I tried to use his travels to benefit my physical life.


I was unable to travel for over four years or I was not aware of his travels. I don't know which it was. Either way I was shut out for years to be taught that lesson, that it's all about him, my pure self


I know he is trying to be more physical, if that makes any sense. He fully understands he can have greater influence in the physical world when the physical identity becomes more and more him, my pure identity


That appears to be his focus and his self education when he travels.


That is also why I know and understand why our physical mothers are extremely important in the reincarnation process


While our physical mothers have two pure self's and two souls within their physical bodies it is a time of education and learning for both pure self's


It is my belief they learn from each other and more importantly exchange memories


This connection is never or rarely talked about and is very likely the reason for cross gender memories.


If it is a male pure self is reincarnating he shares his memories with the physical mothers pure self and the physical mothers pure self shares her memories with reincarnation pure self. It is because of this connection previous live memories of who and what you were could well get confused and is most likely why this connection is never talked about


There is no way a physical brain could or would ever know the difference about where these previous life memories came from, no matter how much those who did not agree tried to make their point. I do not agree that our pure self's do not have gender. That is impossible


I could go on and write pages and pages, but I will stop


The point I'm trying to make is, our memories and thoughts about previous lives all comes fro our pure self and that then depends upon where those previous life memories came from


Regards


John Tat

 

[SeaAndSky]

I'm not sure where to put this down, but this thread seems as good as any. Maybe it was in my subconscious when I started the thread, though I certainly don't recall that motivation at this point. Anyhow, I have had an increasing feeling that--in terms of my past incarnations--I may have been predominantly female. I also think I may have disavowed being female--though I am not sure why or exactly when (though I seem to have been female in my last life).


In this regard, I think my own disavowal of being female may be at the root of a lot of things in my current life as well as my difficulty, after one quick You Tube mediated regression, of succeeding again in accomplishing any PL recall using this method. I assume (and perhaps feel) that having disavowed and disowned femininity for myself, and having found myself to be female when I did the regression, the stubborn part of me is determined not have to experience or remember it.


I also know that upon certain occasions since I got started on this path I have found myself "randomly" thinking about the disadvantages of being female and found myself not only listing a lot of things I had never really thought about before, but becoming very emotional in the process and almost sliding into a different and much more "feminine" persona in the process. Consequently, I pretty quickly pulled up out of what seems to be a power dive into places I'm not ready to go.


OTOH, I feel bound to try and unravel who and what I am and get to the bottom of things. Consequently, I have (following the suggestions of some other sources), begun trying to lay down some affirmations while meditating about being able to remember PLs. Whether as a result of this or not, I have recently had some snippets of imagery come into mind that may or may not be representative of anything, though they seem important to me. One was a recent vague image of a little boy who seemed to be dressed in something like silk pajamas with some kind of hat or turban--perhaps a middle-eastern or eastern image. Another was even more shocking to me. It was of a girl who had been raped repeatedly and by more than one and was lying in the straw--in a barn or other similar structure I think. She is desolate and destroyed. I can remember the shock I felt when a bayonet was suddenly thrust into her chest. I was completely caught off guard, astonished and devastated, as she must have been. Hadn't they done enough already! I'm getting emotional thinking about this, so I'm signing off now and going to get myself another Advil. If this is a past life memory it would have been farther back than what I think is my most recent PL, but it could be part of a chain of things related to the issue.


S&S


PS--Another even more terrible thought just occurred to me. I hope and pray I was not the one with the bayonet. That is the only thing I can think of that would impact the current me more than being the girl!

 

[PastPilot]

The Vow


When I was 25 years old, I woke up one morning as usual. As I dressed I heard a voice in my head stating, "Don't forget your vow. You promised to return to Ireland. You must keep this vow in this lifetime". It was accompanied with a feeling that the vow had been made to my mother. She was losing a son as he went off to fight in a foreign war. She knew she would never see him again, but made him promise that he would return to mother Ireland. Suddenly, I remembered. I was that son.


Ten years later, I had the same phenomena, with the same message. I thought to myself that this must be important to have been reminded twice. Back in 2010, I saw a psychic. As I was leaving her place she suddenly stated, “Oh… I have a message for you.. you must visit Ireland to fulfill a vow you made to your mother”. It seems that this is something I really must do.


Ireland was at war with Cromwell at the end of the English Civil War and I was Irish. Hardly an English War when Scotland and Ireland were also involved. Despite having been defeated at every battle, the Irish refused to be conquered and a brutal guerrilla war ensued with no real end in sight, but the English government came up with plan. If the fighters in Ireland agreed, they would be allowed to leave Ireland and join either the foreign armies of Spain or France. This seemed to appeal to everyone and as many as 40,000 Irishmen took this pardon and left Ireland. I was one of those who took the pardon. I died fighting in a foreign war. Leaving Ireland broke my mother’s heart as she knew she would never see me again. In desperation, she made me promise to return one day. I made the promise, and a promise made is a promise one must keep. The amount of years really means nothing. Love doesn’t die. I will be keeping my promise in my lifetime.


Once you have been Irish, you are always Irish. I still feel my Irish roots, even though in this life, I do not have Irish blood, but I do possess an Irish heart.

 

[SeaAndSky]

PastPilot,


This is a great story of a PL vow. I hope you can get back and fulfill your vow. Having a fairly romantic temperament, I hope you can find a way to locate where your mother's body was laid to rest (or at least visit the haunts of your prior life). Somehow, to me, just visiting Eire isn't quite enough--I think you should look on the fields you once saw (changed or not) and watch the sunset or sunrise there.


However, as interesting as your vow is, I am actually just as fascinated by your comment about being Irish despite not being Irish in this life. It brings up a whole new subject area that I don't recall ever seeing on this board (though I'm a relative newcomer myself so I can't say for sure): Why do some people become fixed on certain lives in certain locations as somehow defining who they are? Why would some still primarily see themselves as--in some significant way--still a Roman, Egyptian, Irishman, Pole or some other thing? What special resonance do we find with a particular time, place and people that makes such an impression on us? (You may not recognize what I am doing here, but I'm inviting you to start a thread--I think you may stir up some interesting comments with this--plus, I'd really like to know what people say).


Cordially,


S&S


PS--I'm not usually as active on this board as I am today, but its been a light work day and I'm not being as dutiful as I should be.