Smoking Behind the Gym

[SeaAndSky]

I grew up in a different age. Smoking was very common. Men and women both smoked . . . a lot! But kids weren't supposed to smoke, especially school kids. So, obviously, many kids were very attracted to smoking. It had a cool image, alternately tough as nails if you were a guy and slinky sexy if you were a girl. Plus, it was spittin' in the eye of authority. So, lots of smokin' where you could find a private spot away from the grown-ups. Behind the gym was usually a good spot. Somehow it usually faced out into the woods or unused fields or a fence line. So, here we all are--are we smoking behind the gym?

Remembering this PL stuff isn't common. We're supposed to be in school here, learning our lessons and the rules for our lifetime (the "school year") are that we can't see out and don't know much about what's "outside" during our time here, even what happened during the past few school years. It helps keep us concentrated on what we're supposed to be learning and doing here and now. But, hey, you can't help but feel a bit cooler than the common crowd if you're hanging with the other "smokers" and doing something that only the "grown-ups" usually get to do: remembering all this PL stuff.

I saw some folks recently complaining that their guides were very stingy with information, only giving them dribs and drabs of info on PLs. Hmm. I'm wondering if their guides are even supposed to be doing that much. But that's the way it always was. There was always someone a bit more grown-up who could get the cigs or the booze or whatever and slip you a little, but it was never very much. The question is now whether the more "grown-up" ones who are supposed to be watching us are actually trying to help us, or just trying to get us to shut up by thowing us (like whiny 2 year olds) a little tidbit or two.

Sometimes I wonder.

S&S

 

[PastPilot]

Its a good point. I feel those who are suppose to know do; those that don't may not be suppose to know. It probably comes down to what you are trying to accomplish in your present life and how you planned to do it.


My aunt, who is a psychic, feels it is cheating to know too much about your past, because it can influence your future.


Michael Newton stated that if we know about our past, it is usually for a reason. In his 30 year study of regressing people, he pointed out that no one regressed ever stated they were not allowed to know something and the few times he spoke with someone's guides, it became quite apparent that the information was either there for the individual to know and use, or it wasn't. In one case where the information being sought was "off bounds", Michael Newton said the person's guide simply stated that he had had enough and ended the dialog. Mr.Newton kept asking about a particular point from his client's past, but that person's guide kept stating that the information cannot be revealed because it will influence the person's decision later in life ruining the planned experience (lesson).


I feel the problem is really just trying to figure why we are shown tidbits, here and there, without a real pattern. We are shown what we need to know, no more or less.

 

[KenJ]

S&S seems to be feeling very philosophical tonight, both posts that I've read touched me and drew me deeper into thought.


I have mainly felt that we are not supposed to "spoil" our experience with too much intervention; that we are to live the plan that we made on our own. At the same time, there seems to be times when intervention can, perhaps, save our lives so we have the chance to "live the plan"; that is what I gather from my guide's warning me about an impending problem I was about to experience. Other things like having knowledge or abilities that can not otherwise be explained are either gifts or something similar to accident.


I excuse my inabilities to be regressed the three times I tried by thinking that perhaps it would interfere with my purpose or task, but at my age, I just wonder at times why I'm still here.


I don't think that discussing and asking questions about reincarnation has a "cool" factor even if it is something not normally discussed in the society in which I live. To me it is more like discussing divining rods; something that I know works because of quite a bit of personal experience, but it is something that most people will roll their eyes at rather than talk about. There are just some things that are not easy to explain (and for others to accept) and are therefore marked as out-of-bounds.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi PastPilot,


In terms of tidbits, like I said: I have to wonder. I don't really think that my analogy is apt in certain respects. I don't know that we're actually involved in a vice, just something that may, from "the principle's office" and the "teacher's lounge" look like goofing off and daydreaming about other times (school years) rather than attending to present studies. But I couldn't resist the humorous analogy, if only because it seemed so incongruous.


Anyhow, though we may be edging into things that our guides and teachers don't want us to really penetrate, and though our "hobby" here may detract from our attention to the current realities they want us to attend to, it's hard to understand what their motives are for releasing what little they do release. Are they just throwing us harmless bits and pieces that really don't do anything to give us the big picture, or are the pieces part of a picture that is too big for us (like ants crawling over a mosaic) to grasp? Could it be a bit of both?


Cordially,


S&S

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Ken,


You and PastPilot have both made very good points. I really got a lot out of both of your posts. In fact, the “cool” factor like the “vice” factor is a humorous incongruity when applied to the typical poster on this forum. We are, by and large, the older 50% of the population and possibly even the older 20%. Any way you look at it, we can’t be typically seen as “cool” from the viewpoint of the younger set.


However, what is seen as “cool” varies quite a bit, changing with age and different with each generation. There is one thing that I see as almost a constant: what is “cool” to the immature is always seen as being a bit absurd to those who are older (or at least more mature). This is true even when its practitioners would not think themselves that they are doing something that would be classified as “cool”. So, it can also apply to those of us who are doing things we think are interesting without realizing that they may seem to be absurd to more mature souls. To them we may just look like little kids trying on mommy or daddy’s shoes and stomping around the house.


I can look back on some of the things I wore, said, or tried to be at a younger age and feel embarrassed at how ludicrous it all was. Even my children laugh over my old long haired pictures from that day and age. When I look at what passes as “cool” with the younger set now, I am often equally amused. I see young guys with their pants about to fall off and their underwear showing—obviously very entranced by their own “coolness” as they swagger along—and feel nothing but amusement (and even hilarity) at how ludicrously stupid they look. So it goes across the board. One has to wonder if anyone ever realizes how stupid they are going to look to themselves at a later point in their own development, and how embarrassed they may be by what they wore, said and did.


Still, the question remains. When those farther along the road look at us, even doing what we do here, do they see anything more than the immature pursuits of very young souls. Despite our seriousness, do we seem to them to be as immature and possibly silly as those kids behind the gym (or the ones swaggering along with their pants about to fall off).


Cordially,


S&S

 

[tanguerra]

I always have an issue with the idea that everything is all planned and our 'guides' control what we do, how much we remember and rules in general. But, hey, that's probably just me and my gypsy blood (yes really). Certainly, I started smoking (and generally running pretty wild) at a young age and my parents and anyone else had a terrible time trying to do anything about it!


Remembering past life stuff has always come easily to me and I have never had an experience of any 'guides' mediating things in my life, that I'm aware of at least, although I know others do.


Maybe things are planned, or destined or whatever, in great detail, maybe only in part. I don't know. But, I think it is natural to remember past lives and some people just do it more easily than others, a bit like the way some people remember their dreams better than others. I think you can get better at it with a bit of practice, like anything else. I don't think it's against the 'rules'. What rules? Whose rules?

 

[Obie]

When I was a teen in the mid '90's, I had a dream about a PL. In it, my high school friends from the year 1997 were telling me that I needed to get out of that dream, that I'm not supposed to see anymore. My PL self from the 1800's post civil war era was angry to see my current self finding out about my old self as well. For some reason as a teen, I wasn't supposed to see that life.


I have a very hard time regressing. Any time I want to find out about fun exciting wild times in PL's I never get an answer from my spirit guides. However, I have regressed back to dutiful boring, depressive PLs except the 1800's saloon girl post civil war life. That saloon life of the 1800's was fleeting b/c for some reason as a teenager I wasn't supposed to see it.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Obie,


Your case says something about the conflicting information on this whole subject.


Professionals who do regression as part of their profession comment on people being blocked from seeing certain lives and/or certain details of lives. Apparently, there have also been contacts with people's guides who similarly indicated that certain things were blocked and/or not to be looked into. Many people seem to report problems and occasionally what seems to be lack of cooperation and/or active blocking by the "powers that be" whatever they may be. Consequently, this seems to indicate (at the least) a line beyond which our efforts to remember past lives will not be supported AND MAY even be actively impeded.


OTOH, outside of that line and these indications, it seems to be true that folks can strive to recover more memories, increase their memories of PLs and work at that in various ways.


Though Tanguerra has her doubts (as do others), it appears to me that there are higher agendas than our current individual agenda to know about PLs, and that the "higher" beings or authorities that are charged with those agendas are, quite naturally, only inclined to help us when our agenda is neutral in terms of their agenda and/or coincides with their agenda. In fact, as noted, they may even act to block our agenda when it does not. I think the general assumption is that these higher authorities (guides or whatever) have our best interests at heart, but that is about all that can be said.


In regard to your saloon girl PL, it could have been that you were being protected from being drawn to that kind of life (or something akin to it) again. Maybe you forswore it and determined to put it behind you permanently either during that lifetime or before your present life. So, hard to know, but you can probably assume like most that (at least generally speaking) "they" know more than we do. As I have commented, and despite the lack of "cool" in our endeavors, we are in many respects merely kids "smoking behind the gym" and not the "grown-ups" who are actually running things.


Cordially,


S&S

 

[Nangijala]

Apparently, there have also been contacts with people's guides who similarly indicated that certain things were blocked and/or not to be looked into. Many people seem to report problems and occasionally what seems to be lack of cooperation and/or active blocking by the "powers that be" whatever they may be. Consequently, this seems to indicate (at the least) a line beyond which our efforts to remember past lives will not be supported AND MAY even be actively impeded.
... it appears to me that there are higher agendas than our current individual agenda to know about PLs, and that the "higher" beings or authorities that are charged with those agendas are, quite naturally, only inclined to help us when our agenda is neutral in terms of their agenda and/or coincides with their agenda. In fact, as noted, they may even act to block our agenda when it does not. I think the general assumption is that these higher authorities (guides or whatever) have our best interests at heart, but that is about all that can be said...

I agree! I was told that in my last incarnation I died of acute appendicitis. But I'm pretty sure (well ... 90 %) I committed suicide. It's because what I see and feel about this extremely depressive girl I was.


In this life I have my depressive bouts too. So I have a suspicion that somebody is trying to protect me from escaping again through the "emergency exit".

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Nangijala,


This sounds like something I reported on another thread about what I believe was my own most recent PL. I was speculating about a lot of very intense emotion that kept coming through when I tried to go any deeper into that life, including a whole lot of depression and beginning to wonder about a PL suicide.


During a subsequent meditation session I got a very clear message: "You had cancer". I have never had anything like that happen in my life before, and I wasn't seeking an answer to any question, just meditating. My immediate thought was OK, that answers that, but then I realized that cancer may have been part of the total situation that contributed to a suicide--so now I am once again in doubt.


A burst appendix is usually the culmination of an extremely painful period and leads into another very painful period which may often end in an extremely painful death (according to a tiny bit of internet research I just did). I don't know when or where your PL occurred, but if it wasn't sometime after the development of strong antibiotics, your chances of survival would have been pretty much zero, but death would usually not come that quickly from what I can tell with a little bit of internet reading. So, you have something like the situation I was speaking about in terms of cancer and have to ask, "Was it the appendicitis that killed me or was I tempted to speed the process up and escape the pain by suicide?"


Either way, the answer given by your "sources" (and mine) may have been true. If you/me didn't die from the appendicitis/cancer, it may be that they view it as the actual proximate cause of your/my possible suicide. I don't think the "sources" we are talking about lie to us (at least I hope not), but I think it is quite possible that they reveal the truth "selectively" in a way they think is in our best interest. So, your speculation on this may be correct.


In this situation the answer may also be a reminder that you have no such "excuse" in this life. Besides, even if you did have such an excuse, suicide is never an answer. From what I can tell we just have to come back and face the same problems and overcome them at a later date until we "get it right"--so better to deal with it now and get it out of the way. I found some good counseling was the right answer for me during a particularly difficult period in my own life. So, definitely look in this direction if you continue to feel depressed.


Cordially,


S&S


PS--Also, not to neglect an option, it could be that what we heard is the literal truth, and it was disease that did the deed. The feelings we are contacting may just be what we felt as we faced our impending deaths in those PLs. So, a sadness to look back on, but our life has moved on. Either way, we're in a new life and we can let it go.

 

[Nangijala]

...During a subsequent meditation session I got a very clear message: "You had cancer". I have never had anything like that happen in my life before, and I wasn't seeking an answer to any question, just meditating. My immediate thought was OK, that answers that, but then I realized that cancer may have been part of the total situation that contributed to a suicide--so now I am once again in doubt.


A burst appendix is usually the culmination of an extremely painful period and leads into another very painful period which may often end in an extremely painful death (according to a tiny bit of internet research I just did). ... So, you have something like the situation I was speaking about in terms of cancer and have to ask, "Was it the appendicitis that killed me or was I tempted to speed the process up and escape the pain by suicide?"


Either way, the answer given by your "sources" (and mine) may have been true. If you/me didn't die from the appendicitis/cancer, it may be that they view it as the actual proximate cause of your/my possible suicide. I don't think the "sources" we are talking about lie to us (at least I hope not), but I think it is quite possible that they reveal the truth "selectively" in a way they think is in our best interest. So, your speculation on this may be correct. ...


PS--Also, not to neglect an option, it could be that what we heard is the literal truth, and it was disease that did the deed. The feelings we are contacting may just be what we felt as we faced our impending deaths in those PLs. So, a sadness to look back on, but our life has moved on. Either way, we're in a new life and we can let it go.

Yes, this is possible. But there is a third possibility: Maybe I was really suicidal in this past life, but had by chance a "natural" death before I could end it with my own hands.


I have just this strong feeling, there is a huge gap in this jigsaw puzzle - one of many gaps actually LOL - and that this is on purpose. I don`t think spirit guides are really lying to us, but maybe they have this Obi-Wan Kenobi attitude about truth depending on "a certain point of view".

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Nangijala,


All good points!


S&S

 

[adorianne]

I believe it has a lot to do with emotion and being ready. You want to know everything now, but it would freak you out. Maybe that's just me, but I have delved into my PL just before this one, and it was so overwhelming. It comes in bursts, after which I need to recover before I can move on and find out more. It's knowing your limits. You use the metaphor of smoking and alcohol, both of which are poisonous if used excessively, and addictions are not uncommon. Both the "adults" and "teens" are stupid for using such substances. One has to be careful not to use it as a form of escapism (and this is coming from a PL which was ended due to an accidental drug overdose...)


Delving into past lives is an intensely personal experience, lonely too, and in hindsight can seem very "uncool."


I'd be more inclined to compare my own experience with a passionate nerd, who, after having done her schoolwork, goes to the library to read piles of academically unrelated books beyond her age, with the spirit guide as the kindly librarian. You have to independantly reach a certain level of knowledge and literacy in order to understand the more advanced books, I do not think they are forbidden. But the more you read, the more you learn, the more you know, the more you realize how much you DON'T know. Spirit guides aren't here to teach you, that's life's job, they're here to give you the right kind of help, advice or tools to do what you need to do - if you ask. I think it is a little nave to assume they have such authority and superiority over us, that they withold information or provide it. I wouldn't trust a spirit who'd do that. It's like being driven around in a stroller when you're well able to walk, wobbly as you may be sometimes.


I do love metaphors

 

[SeaAndSky]

So, here is a new gripe . . .

I’ve had this on my mind for awhile, and it seemed like an appropriate time to reactivate this particular thread. This is one of the things that one talks about when smoking behind the gym—i.e., the seeming vagaries, arbitrariness, cruelty, etc. etc. of the teachers and administration. So, this is where I voice something that has been bugging me for awhile.

In her own way, The Divine One (“DO”) poked her finger into something that sometimes seems to be a bruise on my soul: the fact that our “handlers” throw us out here seemingly knowing that we are going to get burned at the stake, die horribly, be mistreated, etc. etc. I know, I know, there is the constant subtext of we get to choose whether to take on a particular lifetime. But nothing I’ve read (or intuited) indicates that we know everything that is going to happen during that lifetime. It seems to me that much of what I read indicates that they cue up some possible “situations” for us and we look them over in the most superficial way and take our pick—or defer until another time when our “turn” comes back up again. However, from all I can tell it’s not just some random process. They cue up those bodies/lives for us based on their own criteria—these are the ones that are meant to accomplish something in terms of our growth. (If you don’t believe it works this way, good on you, you’re welcome to voice your opinion and retire with a clear conscience; however, you will not convince me otherwise, nor will you convince some others on the board).

But then, there is that old saying about the making of sausage and how it is better not to know what goes into it and how it is done. So it goes with their decisions, and apparently with what it takes to make us the beings we need (and seemingly are striving) to be. The “sausage” contains its mixture of heartache and pain, sometimes the worst imaginable. We all know that, even the ones that believe that this whole long cacophony of lives is purely random know that life can be a very unpleasant affair. Anyhow, I’ve seen nothing to indicate that we look over and agree to all of the specifics before we take the plunge—so it goes I guess. We have to (and seemingly do) trust them in some sort of ultimate way to do what is best.

All of this is on my mind, and has been on my mind perhaps since I started on this board. DO was worried about “balance” and we all rushed to assure her that she did not have to choose life in a particular gender unless that was what she wanted, etc. etc.—all very well meaning and perhaps true. However, it seems to me that we fudged a bit on this. I mentioned it at the time, and some others I think knew what I was talking about—i.e., how do you get someone to make the choice that will give them “balance” and “perspective” and all of those good things about cross-gender incarnation when they would not knowingly choose to do so. Hmmm. It doesn’t seem to be a coincidence that the last life or lives of one gender often seem to be characterized by a certain (often sex specific) horribleness that makes one ready to jump ship and try a change of gender. Talk to Totoro about his last unhappy lifetime as a female. Talk to Tanguerra about being a little girl with a rope tied around her neck and being thrown off a balcony into space, and the lifetime as a powerful male she lived after this. DO doesn’t recall, but I suspect that her last lifetime ended in a horrible way as well. And then I think about myself. Two “putative” female lifetimes I can barely remember, but that seemingly ended very . . . unpleasantly. Especially the last: A lifetime that I cannot even focus in on without waves of terror that are disabling. I’m sure there are others on this board who have similar tales to tell, from either side of the great divide.

Well, I trust the wisdom and compassion of the “grownups” overall. But I don’t like the inevitable breaking of eggs that goes into making this particular omelet—especially since I’m the egg in question. A lot of it hurts, and it is hurting at the moment. How long does this have to go on? When do we get to go “home” and stay? I’m not one to be a drop-out, if such is possible, but I certainly long for “graduation”--whatever that means.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[tanguerra]

The eternal question: why do bad things happen? It's one of those great mysteries that people have tried to find answers to for as long as there have been people. Of course, there are lots of theories. Is there a divine plan of some kind, or does stuff just 'happen'? Is God (however you conceive Her) behind it all, or are humans just doing things out of their own free will, even though often people do really terrible things to each other?

I don't begin to know the answer, but my intuition is that 'God' (or our spirit guides, elders, angels, or whatever you like to call them) are not making us do anything. I think the role of guides is possibly to try to help us as best they can, but they are not infallible either.

The Australian Aborigines talk about their 'ancestors' always watching over them and trying to guide them, share their wisdom, and so on. But you need to be in the right head space to hear what they are trying to say in order to take advantage of that. This is why many older cultures have processes of going on spirit walks, initiation ceremonies in the desert, or the wilds, in order to learn to access the right state of mind. My belief is that when they speak of their 'ancestors' this is very similar to what we would describe as 'spirit guides' who may actually be our higher selves, or aspects of our previous incarnations.

Some of us are able to tap into this excellent source of advice. Others not so much. This could be because they don't know how, because our culture does not teach this skill. If our culture could learn to access this higher state of being more readily, I suspect that fewer terrible things would happen because people would know how to behave better.

As to sicknesses, like appendicitis, I think those things 'just happen'. But, in part because these things 'happen' we have made huge advances in medical science, so is that evolution doing its work? The Buddhists say that 'suffering' is the road to enlightenment. Maybe it works at a micro and a macro level?

 

[John Tat]

S&S Sorry to hear you are not in a good place right now. I can feel your pain through what you write. You are in chaos and long for balance. I always assumed your faith in your god would guide you through such things. As you know the last physical entity I occupied did have a most horrible death. As with all of my memories I have no clue who the physical entities were I occupied and have no desire to know. I have two other memories of the deaths of the physical entities I occupied, both are very violent..

In all three, the physical entities died a warriors death.. Different to you and most others I have no attachment to what happened to these physical entities. It appears to me (but I may be wrong) you have lost your way . You have no clear path to go forward and deal with these issues. . I will pass on what has happened to me which may be of some help to you in finding a way to deal with what is happening to you.. Since my source has arrived on the scene I have gone from chaos to balance My spiritual self is the most important. my source is my guide

To cut a very long story back to a couple of statements... I no longer worry about most things.. I have complete faith my source will guide my spiritual self and then John Tat through anything that happens.. Since doing this everything unfolds and I'm guided to take certain actions.. There are the times when it doesn't work, but while mediating I'm told I had to learn from that experience. But I know nothing extreme is going to happen.. They will never allow that to happen. Different to what is believed and I think I have talked about this before...This is all part of the spiritual me becoming more physical.. That is the journey I'm on, as you know from the other thread.

The point I'm trying to make is, in my opinion you need either your god or your spiritual self to guide you through this.. I'm in a state of balance, while understanding I can with the help of my spiritual self and source deal with almost everything that can arise. both physically and spiritually.

Regards

 

[tanguerra]

Life is strange. Nothing stranger.

 

[tanguerra]

Just sayin'. ..

 

[SeaAndSky]

Dear Tanguerra and John,

Thank you for your concern. I am not really in that bad a shape, nor is my cry against life, or even God, any more than anyone else has cried. Sometimes I want to weep for us all, but that is certainly not always me. More often than not as I grow older, I just want to be somewhere else, but that is not a suicidal impulse, just the outgrowth of fatigue and a desire for final freedom. Suicide does not give this. It does not unlock us from this cycle and give us final freedom. In fact, it probably binds us tighter. My desire is also not to be gone from family and loved ones, or from the duties that I still have here to them and God. There must be a word for it somewhere--probably in German. The Germans seem to always have a word for such things. C. S. Lewis wrote about this in one of his books that I am fond of, it is the longing that leads us beyond the world. We seek to satisfy it all kinds of worldly ways, but ultimately we find that none of them satisfy, because it doesn't have an answer in this world/existence and is meant to lead us elsewhere. St. Augustine wrote about it another way, saying that we all have a God shaped space in our life, and that we will never be at peace until God fills that gap. Also, as I recall, that we can never rest until we rest in Him. It seems impossible to find that rest here, though the greatest saints and sages seem to carry it with them wherever they are. Unfortunately, that is not me, at least not for what seems like a very long and weary time to come.

John, you are an old soul, and you seem to have found your way forward. I hope it is the right way, but it definitely seems to be doing something that had to be done. I have not lost my faith at all, but I have--step-by-step--been detaching it from much existing dogma, which I think hides the truth revealed in and through scripture and Jesus Christ. Revelation is progressive. A paragraph begins and reveals its subject as it proceeds (if it is well written). So it is with the revelation given through and to the progeny of Abraham. This is not really a matter in theological dispute among Christians. However, though God can be trusted to reveal perfectly. Man cannot be trusted to understand perfectly, as a matter of fact, just the opposite is true. This is not, unfortunately, the position of most theologians and current denominational embodiments of the faith now any more than it was when you were sent off with a variety of false ideas in WWII. But this is a place where I think you should be blaming those calling themselves the King's messengers and not the King.

Humans like to think they understand even when they don't, and will usually fight against any challenges to their prevailing ideas. I could say much more, but that was not really the subject of my prior post or the cause for my dismay. What I realized this morning is that I have been guilty of the same types of misunderstandings and railings that I just pinned on 2000 years of theologians. But what can you expect from a two year old? What I was attempting to convey in my last post was a sense of disillusionment arising from a growing conviction that our choices vis-a-vis reincarnation are not necessarily as "free" as we like to believe. In fact, I believe that they are often manipulated not only in the sense that our choices for incarnation are limited, but that what we experience during those incarnations may be chosen so as to make us more likely to choose subsequent incarnations that serve an agenda that we are only vaguely aware of (if at all). I suppose the trouble is that we get accustomed or only want to experience certain things. Also, we definitely seem to identify (for whatever reason) with a particular gender and accompanying roles. Our growth seems to require us to break out of the latter from time to time, but how do you make a two year old do what a two year old needs to do?

I came from a large family and have a fairly large family myself. I have been with and dealt with a large number of 2 year olds in my time. And yes, every wise parent learns that 2 year olds have to be manipulated. Brute force is usually not appropriate and usually doesn't work very well anyway. Wheedling seldom works. Much to every idealistic young parent's disappointment, 2 year olds are also oblivious to reason. They want their way, and they want it NOW! Manipulation is one way to talk about it, but it is usually more euphemistically referred to as "proper management". But how do you "manage" herds of apprentice godlings who want to have their way in things as much as 2 year olds? Like 2 year olds, they have to be convinced that the next step you want them to take is actually the one they prefer.

I have voiced my observation that cross-gender lives often seem to be associated with something very bad that happened in the prior gendered life. For females, this may be associated with powerlessness and/or vulnerability. Somehow this type of thing just keeps coming up when people talk about this phenomena. DO was concerned about "balance" and maybe that is the proper term. We reassured her that (as far as we can tell) she will have a choice, but that doesn't mean that circumstances are not manipulated to "encourage" the choice that our managers/teachers/guides consider best for us and our development. Sometimes those circumstances are cruel of even brutal--hence my concern. How can the goodness I believe is there use such methods?

The better question might be how they can get us to do what is best for ourselves otherwise? We seem to have a lot of freedom, more than I ever expected in some respects. We definitely have our preferences and our dogmatic vows and directions. I'm not leaving John out of this either. Cross-gender incarnations seem to be one place where this type of thing comes up, but I am increasingly convinced that his last death and a tough life since were meant to blow him back on course and back to some things he abandoned a very long time ago. When he says he remembers two other warrior deaths, I tend to think that all of these deaths had the same purpose. They were hammer blows to break through the wall of a decision and vow to abandon certain things that he apparently made in Ancient Egypt. The fact that it took so many to break through is probably an indication of the toughness and determination of the spirit that resides within him.

So, here we are. I lament, but somehow I find my lament turning into one that such methods are necessary. That I/we are such stubborn children and childish godlings. I am not the psalmist or Job, but I think I have to come to the place they found. God's decisions and methods will always be found to be not only justified but good in the final analysis. C. S. Lewis also had a term for this--a "Severe Mercy"--such as that exercised by the surgeon who has to amputate a gangrenous limb. We seem to be subject to many such severe mercies in this life. I hope that I can find a way to become a bit more amenable to guidance and less subject to the necessity of such severe methods, but that remains to be seen.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[Mere Dreamer]

This is interesting, S&S. One thought that has helped me immensely in dealing with "God" in all their variations (and a lack of certainty as to what this being/s or concept "is") is to consider the concept of time as temporary/limited also. I know ... that might not be reassuring in itself, but consider this:

If time isn't what we think it is,... if there is, in fact, an "outside" to time in which time can be viewed and manipulated like we view and manipulate a puzzle box, then that means there is/will be a part of you outside this puzzle, too, at some point (if only the complete wholeness of your existence in time).

I first thought of this as my "future self" or the part of me that exists "in heaven with God" back when I thought I knew what that meant. Later that combined with the concept of a higher self or spiritual identity that can't fit entirely into the physical present.

Maybe it's just me, but this was the connection that stabilized my fragmented self back when I was surrounded by abusive relationships. I trusted that identity to exist (the one who survived all this and is directly connected with God without needing anticipatory faith because that presence There has been/will be/is now a present, whole-knowing relationship with God). In the process of believing a myself of the future (but not from that perspective) existed outside of time, I began to react (just a little) as though I already stand outside of time, now.

It's not a sense one can hold onto constantly (or at least I can't, yet) but that nearly invisible concept created enough hope and confidence to keep me alive and constantly pushing back into my own integrity and growth, even when opposed by abusive beliefs, manipulation (gas-lighting, etc.) and people (especially those who claimed they had authority over my options) who would otherwise have managed to control and confine me into that constant state of suffering and limitation.

I could fight to be the ME from There ... and under that sense of an identity external to my present experience was the belief in existence beyond time and tangible experience. There is a portion of myself today that can trust truth to prove itself in the present when I'm open to seeing it, because I There already know it. I am promised wisdom when I request it, so to speak. (In my experience that promise is only fulfilled through living on the truth as I know it now, knowing I don't know much that I might think I know or can't yet imagine, and adapting to new understanding as I experience correction or confirmation.)

I knew I could become ME Then because I already exist Then now. Time isn't a factor from There. The process of becoming was/is/will be already complete. I am. And that is wholeness.

I'm working through STUFF from the past and present ... and I probably will do the same in future lives as well. I also get to participate in exchanging methods to smooth out the tangles for others to try now that I've managed to smooth out a few tangles of my own. A collaborative, experimental practice is a valid path to progress.

This version of me now can't comprehend the ME There, though I am present There/here as witness to the process of becoming. Given that mental knot (I get confused when I think too hard about this, so I understand if you think it doesn't make sense.) it is possible that we really are both the victim and the ultimate perpetrator of these complex life situations. Also, our lives are woven together because we develop as a group as well, so it's obvious we will be influenced by the circles we join or interact with ... all of whom exist There as well as here within time.

I think we also enter difficulties in life as a result of other's need for growth/new perspective. I doubt the relational/community aspect of life is rigidly coordinated ahead of time (in time) without a chance for deviation. From outside of time the corrections of random events toward final goals happen Now ... but Now may work itself out in the past, present, or future of our lived experience.

*shrug* for what it's worth...

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Mere,

I have read through your post a half-dozen times or so over the last few days. It has a lot to say to me, and perhaps a lot to say in terms of the topic of this thread. Overall, this thread got started because I was wondering what was really something that advanced us towards what we're intended to be, and finally will be, and what is merely "smoking behind the gym"--i.e., the adolescent antics of the immature who want to feel . . . well . . . more "grown-up" than they actually are. We may chuckle indulgently at the tiny tot who tries on momma's heels and dress and smears lipstick on her face, but the adolescent may often mistake something that is really absurd or perhaps even counter-productive for the real thing, especially if it makes them feel glamorous, "in-the-know", cool, tough, etc. (take your pick). Examples might be drinking, drugs, smoking or early sex in that context. This was the reason for choosing this analogy. People like Aleister Crowley are, in a way, probably the spiritually adolescent equivalent of what I am talking about.

So, my first question was about all of this PL exploration stuff--are we merely smoking behind the gym? It seems not. For one thing, most of us didn't ask for awareness of this type, it came and knocked us on the head and sometimes head over heels. (Hmm--following my analogy, this sounds a lot like puberty, but I'll leave that one for now). Anyhow, the real question is what is really good (or at least not counter-productive) for our development. A lot of things seem to happen spontaneously along this path, a new interest in things that go beyond the old interests in a merely material reality and existence. This is probably as normal for our stage of development as the budding of a variety of interests at puberty, but not everything is productive. Especially getting into some things before the body, mind, spirit, character, direction, beliefs, etc. are ready and matured.

I have just suffered through, and found my way past, a crisis in confidence, and found a way past my concerns. You seem to be interacting with the portion of my post that moves into an acknowledgement of the fact that we are not merely poor lil ol’ things, but beings with the potential to be very great in spirit as well as power. As spirits, we are made in the image of God, and though currently limited in both power and goodness, we have potentials that are in some respects unimaginable to us at present. This touches on one aspect of the concerns I expressed—the justice or goodness of those who (I think knowingly) send us into circumstances where they know we will or are likely to suffer very greatly—all with the goal of moving us towards some ultimate destination that we can only dimly perceive due to our current limitations.

After thinking about it I realized that our current sufferings are not worthy to be considered in the light of what we seek and seek to become. What price in sufferings would be too high to pay for real divinization in character and abilities, to be made Christ-like in goodness, power, humility and grace, to enjoy and experience the prerogatives of heaven? None. This does not justify the ignorant and cruel perpetrators of suffering in this world, but it does justify the use of their evil for our good by those higher beings that have our best interest at heart. And those who cause suffering are also on the same road, unless they become one of those who seem to be banned from the process or that have turned away from the quest. We are made in the image of God, godlings in training, never to be as infinite, all knowing or all powerful as our divine progenitor, but still to be gods one day (with a small “g”). Even this is beyond anything we can imagine in our current state.

But I am getting off the point of your email. It seems to me that part of becoming who we are meant to be includes two things I see in your post. First, beginning to try to live as the immortal spirit we will always be rather than merely as the transient and mortal being we currently identify with. Second, beginning to exercise--with caution and with due acknowledgement of our limited level of development--some of the attributes of our higher consciousness while we are still in the body. In this regard, I keep seeing a lot of things posted about the transcendence of "time" in a variety of ways. This includes not only a sense of our own transcendence of time as spirits, but the ability to access information that is outside of our current temporal limitations. More stunningly, it seems in some cases to involve the ability to access/interact with ourselves at different times, including sometimes even past or future lives. Tanguerra has had experiences of this type, John has recently been talking about different times as something that can be accessed, and probably some others have as well. Now you have put in some of your experiences. Overall, this seems to be a "happenin'" topic. Anyhow, I've said enough for now. Thanks, you have definitely got me thinking. I'll probably have some more to say after I've read your post another half dozen times.

Cordially,
S&S