This is from Carol's website - although discussed in the past - do new members have anything to add? Anyone care to comment?
Authorship of the Bible by Jim Blanston
Authorship of the Bible by Jim Blanston
Reincarnation and the Bible
- Thread starter deborah
- Start date
Of course, living in the U.S. Midwest you simply cannot escape from the incessant conservative right dialog in day-to-day living. After all, the area is conservative because most of the people are conservative. When I go to work, a woman will meet me and make sure that I get a bible verse for the day. God spoke to Donna and she realizes that handing out the Bible - one verse at a time - is one of her tasks in life.
The man who assists me is ultra conservative and we are good friends only because I refuse to participate in any conservation about religion or politics - the two being inseperable nowadays.
The feeling among conservatives is that the Bible is the complete and error free word of God -- period, and nowhere in the Bible is the idea of reincarnation to be found. Except, perhaps Jesus did incarnate several times - they are open to that. It doesn't matter what sort of scholarship you could use to support the idea that reincarnation is valid, since that scholarship would be characterized as simply wrong because you can't dispute the infallible word of God.
Even though I was born with the sure knowledge that I am, once again, incarnated into the Earth plane, I try not to proselytize or even reveal much about my thoughts to others unless they seem to be seeking for meaning to their existence. I would for the most part, even then, just say don't abandon your faith now if it has served you well. I simply don't think that it matters much what you believe as long as the main tenet of your belief is that you love others as you would love yourself. My own beliefs go beyond that but I think that is the important thing.
Even though the scholarship of the origins of the Bible are interesting, it is not something that can be openly discussed where I live and still hope to get along with others. Passing out passages from the Koran or the Book of Mormon would be frowned upon where I work, while passing out verses from the Bible is acceptable and I just accept my daily verse and reply with my canned "Thank you, Donna".
Thank you for the link. I will enjoy reading.
The man who assists me is ultra conservative and we are good friends only because I refuse to participate in any conservation about religion or politics - the two being inseperable nowadays.
The feeling among conservatives is that the Bible is the complete and error free word of God -- period, and nowhere in the Bible is the idea of reincarnation to be found. Except, perhaps Jesus did incarnate several times - they are open to that. It doesn't matter what sort of scholarship you could use to support the idea that reincarnation is valid, since that scholarship would be characterized as simply wrong because you can't dispute the infallible word of God.
Even though I was born with the sure knowledge that I am, once again, incarnated into the Earth plane, I try not to proselytize or even reveal much about my thoughts to others unless they seem to be seeking for meaning to their existence. I would for the most part, even then, just say don't abandon your faith now if it has served you well. I simply don't think that it matters much what you believe as long as the main tenet of your belief is that you love others as you would love yourself. My own beliefs go beyond that but I think that is the important thing.
Even though the scholarship of the origins of the Bible are interesting, it is not something that can be openly discussed where I live and still hope to get along with others. Passing out passages from the Koran or the Book of Mormon would be frowned upon where I work, while passing out verses from the Bible is acceptable and I just accept my daily verse and reply with my canned "Thank you, Donna".
Thank you for the link. I will enjoy reading.
Karoliina
Moderator Emerita
Stardis,
I feel for you. It must be suffocating and frustrating living in a place like that, but you seem to handle it very well. :thumbsup: And your following statement is very important:
Karoliina
I feel for you. It must be suffocating and frustrating living in a place like that, but you seem to handle it very well. :thumbsup: And your following statement is very important:
Exactly. There's no NEED for people to believe in reincarnation, so there's no need to try and "convert" them - if they are not seeking soul growth. As long as people act from love towards each other, we're doing great.stardis said:
Karoliina
Soon.
Lady of Shalott
New Member
I'm from Texas... it doesn't get much more conservative than here (except perhaps Utah). People around here would be very quick to tell me that the Bible is against reincarnation! I don't really believe that, but if I told someone that here, it would be like saying I like to kick puppies or something!
It can get a bit frustrating, but I always have BF to discuss things with, and I'm used to hiding my feelings about politics and religion anyways, since my opinions differ just enough from the norm around here to make people very angry at me!
It can get a bit frustrating, but I always have BF to discuss things with, and I'm used to hiding my feelings about politics and religion anyways, since my opinions differ just enough from the norm around here to make people very angry at me!
Inphanta
New Member
To be fair, the Bible doesn't actually support reincarnation at all. In fact, fundamentalist types would be quick to point you to Hebrews 9:27, which is pretty hard to dispute.
HOWEVER, the link posted above provides more evidence to the effect that the Bible itself has been tampered with over centuries for political reasons.
HOWEVER, the link posted above provides more evidence to the effect that the Bible itself has been tampered with over centuries for political reasons.
Lady of Shalott
New Member
Ah, I wasn't trying to say that reincarnation was supported by the bible, more trying to say that it doesn't really say much either way.
I know this is prob. not going to be a very popular opinion here, but honestly, I have a hard time reconciling the two beliefs. If you feel you can reconcile the two beliefs, that's cool with me, and you are certainly not alone. Edgar Cayce was a famous example of a person who considered themselves Christian, as well as a believer in reincarnation. But I can't seem to reconcile the two.
As Inphanta said, the verse that said something about it being appointed unto men to die once, after which there would be judgement, is one example of a place in the Bible that seems to disagree with the compatibility. I don't know exactly how it goes, but think there's supposed to be something like that in there. Also, when Jesus was talking about being born again, wasn't there a man who asked how they could return to the womb? And didn't Jesus say it was a spiritual rebirth, not a fleshly one? I'll be honest, I'm not well versed in the Bible, so do your own research, but I seem to recall this story. Also, doesn't the Bible speak of hell as eternal? And if we are constantly reborn, until we reach perfection, and then we get to move on, how would we ever even reach hell? Unless this is hell, in which case, wouldn't that mean those of us who'd been here more than the first time had been sent to hell and would never break the rebirth cycle?
I just don't see how it's harmonious. I will say however, that there are a couple verses in the Bible that people cite as supporting reincarnation, that confuse me a bit, as well. Yet, given the above, I'm still not sure they are in harmony. But at the same time, that doesn't give people a right or a reason to treat you badly if you interprit things differently, and consider yourself a Christian who believes in reincarnation. I also live in a conservative area and admitting you believe in reincarnation would get you a lot of bad looks and rude comments. Some people are more accepting, less judgmental, etc., however.
As Inphanta said, the verse that said something about it being appointed unto men to die once, after which there would be judgement, is one example of a place in the Bible that seems to disagree with the compatibility. I don't know exactly how it goes, but think there's supposed to be something like that in there. Also, when Jesus was talking about being born again, wasn't there a man who asked how they could return to the womb? And didn't Jesus say it was a spiritual rebirth, not a fleshly one? I'll be honest, I'm not well versed in the Bible, so do your own research, but I seem to recall this story. Also, doesn't the Bible speak of hell as eternal? And if we are constantly reborn, until we reach perfection, and then we get to move on, how would we ever even reach hell? Unless this is hell, in which case, wouldn't that mean those of us who'd been here more than the first time had been sent to hell and would never break the rebirth cycle?
I just don't see how it's harmonious. I will say however, that there are a couple verses in the Bible that people cite as supporting reincarnation, that confuse me a bit, as well. Yet, given the above, I'm still not sure they are in harmony. But at the same time, that doesn't give people a right or a reason to treat you badly if you interprit things differently, and consider yourself a Christian who believes in reincarnation. I also live in a conservative area and admitting you believe in reincarnation would get you a lot of bad looks and rude comments. Some people are more accepting, less judgmental, etc., however.
Hi,
I think that most people develop their own individualized belief system -- a belief system that allows them to reconcile any uncomfortable tenets of mainstream thought and their own innate feelings. I am sure that there is only one truth about our existence but it seems that there are an infinite number of variations on it.
I understand the Biblical passages concerning men living only once but what I have come to understand is that we are not men or women -- we are eternal beings of Light. We are not actually made of flesh and blood. We only feel that we are flesh because we have taken an earthly form. Sounds like it is right out of science fiction, doesn't it?
When you pass from this earthly existence you are still you -- nothing has changed except your location. You are still the same being that you have always been -- perhaps wiser and more able to contemplate the great gift of Love that has been freely given to us. It is a mystery to us now but as the Bible tells us, we will see clearly and understand those things that are hidden from us now.
I like to read Khalil Gibran. Joy and Sorrow is one of my favorites and I think this passage may describe our brief sojourns into the physical universe:
Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.
And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.
And how else can it be?
The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.
Perhaps that sums up our reason for being here. When we know the sorrow of the flesh, how much greater will we know the unconditional Love that awaits us on the other side of the veil.
Something I think about.
I think that most people develop their own individualized belief system -- a belief system that allows them to reconcile any uncomfortable tenets of mainstream thought and their own innate feelings. I am sure that there is only one truth about our existence but it seems that there are an infinite number of variations on it.
I understand the Biblical passages concerning men living only once but what I have come to understand is that we are not men or women -- we are eternal beings of Light. We are not actually made of flesh and blood. We only feel that we are flesh because we have taken an earthly form. Sounds like it is right out of science fiction, doesn't it?
When you pass from this earthly existence you are still you -- nothing has changed except your location. You are still the same being that you have always been -- perhaps wiser and more able to contemplate the great gift of Love that has been freely given to us. It is a mystery to us now but as the Bible tells us, we will see clearly and understand those things that are hidden from us now.
I like to read Khalil Gibran. Joy and Sorrow is one of my favorites and I think this passage may describe our brief sojourns into the physical universe:
Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.
And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.
And how else can it be?
The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.
Perhaps that sums up our reason for being here. When we know the sorrow of the flesh, how much greater will we know the unconditional Love that awaits us on the other side of the veil.
Something I think about.
alaskanlaughter
Senior Registered
I agree Stardis. Very well-said. :thumbsup:
Inphanta
New Member
The way I see it, "eternity" is a state where time does not apply, much like dreaming. Similarly, in the same way that you cannot quantify the length of a dream, you cannot quantify eternity. Thus, a dream can be said to last an "eternity". In the spirit world, there is no time as we know it, therefore everything lasts an eternity.Cloacina said:
That being the case, I take "eternal hell" to be relative rather than literal, which is to say a person stays in hell for as long as it is necessary and then they reincarnate. Either way, it makes absolutely no sense that an all-loving and compassionate God would allow even one soul to be tortured in hell forever, particularly if we are all one anyway. Even the Bible says of God that if we are faithless he will remain faithful because he cannot disown himself. All things considered, I think the problem lies with people interpreting the Bible literally rather than figuratively (very little of the Bible makes sense in a literal context, the story of Noah's Ark being a good example of this).
This excellent site pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. It is mainly centred on near death experiences, the afterlife realms and the many dimensions of the spirit world. There's a lot to read, but I think it provides ample evidence to prove that fundamentalist Christians with their literalism and dogma have completely missed the point. Some of the near-death testimonials are truly sobering. Particularly this one. All in all, this site single handedly debunks every fundamentalist Christian argument there is, even down to their rather absurd belief that souls sleep in the ground until "Judgment Day" upon which their corpses crawl out of the ground.
Stardis is also correct in that we are eternal beings and not just flesh and blood, meaning that the verse applying to "men dying once" does not apply to us on a soul-level. Outside of that, much of the anecdotal evidence that exists in support of reincarnation is pretty hard to deny.
Hi Cloacina,
In Carol Bowman's first book she covers the history of the removal of reincarnation in the Bible. The chapter is titled Dogma Bites Man and the whole chapter is here on the forum.
Perhaps that will help with reconciling the two beliefs.
In Carol Bowman's first book she covers the history of the removal of reincarnation in the Bible. The chapter is titled Dogma Bites Man and the whole chapter is here on the forum.
Perhaps that will help with reconciling the two beliefs.