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John Tat
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Hi Ken.. I will talk about a couple of things...There are memories of first going to Africa and memories of being a tribe of the Nile which was later on.. Included in my most early memories of Africa is rain plenty of rain and possibly humid... That is why some of my memories are about us only wearing "skirts"... I'm not sure how the big deserts of Africa fits into that memory
You asked about water levels and transportation … Later I have memories of a river which was the Nile... It was wide that's what I remember most .. I had no concept of its length only its width
That is the memory that possibly relates to water levels.. In these early memories I have none of animals being used for transportation.. We hunted and ate the animals .. never viewed them as transportation
I sometimes like talking about thing that have never been talked about before... for example transportation...I have early memories of using rafts not boats on the Nile.. Rafts had multiple purposes for us.. carrying people.. transporting hunted animal carcass's back to our camps and transporting building materials and so on
I have memories of hunting amongst other things cattle and birds It's interesting birds meat was a big deal to us we loved it.. They were big birds much bigger that today
The weapons' I remember most in these early times is an arrow that was hand and arm catapulted from a small branch of a tree hacked out so you could put the arrow in it I have memories of a knife that was made out of what looked like a wild hog tusk.. A wooden handle attached to a hog's task that's what it looked like It was curved not a lot but would have inflicted fatal blows.. looked like a very dangerous weapon
All The Best
You asked about water levels and transportation … Later I have memories of a river which was the Nile... It was wide that's what I remember most .. I had no concept of its length only its width
That is the memory that possibly relates to water levels.. In these early memories I have none of animals being used for transportation.. We hunted and ate the animals .. never viewed them as transportation
I sometimes like talking about thing that have never been talked about before... for example transportation...I have early memories of using rafts not boats on the Nile.. Rafts had multiple purposes for us.. carrying people.. transporting hunted animal carcass's back to our camps and transporting building materials and so on
I have memories of hunting amongst other things cattle and birds It's interesting birds meat was a big deal to us we loved it.. They were big birds much bigger that today
The weapons' I remember most in these early times is an arrow that was hand and arm catapulted from a small branch of a tree hacked out so you could put the arrow in it I have memories of a knife that was made out of what looked like a wild hog tusk.. A wooden handle attached to a hog's task that's what it looked like It was curved not a lot but would have inflicted fatal blows.. looked like a very dangerous weapon
All The Best
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John
It sounds like you were using a spear thrower (atlatl). These are just a step above spears alone, and a step below bow and arrows--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear-thrower:
Wooden darts were known at least since the Middle Paleolithic (Schöningen, Torralba, Clacton-on-Sea and Kalambo Falls). While the spear-thrower is capable of casting a dart well over one hundred meters, it is most accurately used at distances of twenty meters or less. The spearthrower is believed to have been in use by Homo sapiens since the Upper Paleolithic (around 30,000 years ago).[10] Most stratified European finds come from the Magdalenian (late upper Palaeolithic). In this period, elaborate pieces, often in the form of animals, are common. The earliest secure data concerning atlatls have come from several caves in France dating to the Upper Paleolithic, about 21,000 to 17,000 years ago.
The bow and arrow combination overlaps and largely displaces the dart/atlatl combination except in isolated primitive tribal areas by around 1000 BC. Here is an interesting site by an organization that continues to use the atlatl: http://waa.basketmakeratlatl.com/?page_id=177 According to this website:
The bow and arrow began replacing the atlatl around 1000 B.C., but atlatls continued to be used alongside bows into modern times in some areas, most notably Mexico and the Arctic. Bows and arrows are easier to use, and more ammunition can be carried, but atlatl and dart systems have some advantages. They can be used one handed, allowing the other hand to hold a shield in war, or a paddle in a kayak. They throw a heavier projectile, which is easier to attach to a line for harpooning, and they are less affected by wet conditions.
Interesting stuff John. Also, its notable that you are not using a metal knife, etc. The Stone Age gives way to the Bronze age in Egypt around 3100 BC. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age#Egypt) So, the two facts put together put you earlier than 3100 BC in this memory, but I personally think it is probably far older than this. Probably Ice Age of earlier. So, 10,000 BC plus or minus a few thousand years. Waaaaay back.
Cordially,
S&S
PS--Here is another interesting site on the Atlatl. It refers to the spear thrower as a stone age Kalashnikov and has lots of interesting diagrams and photos: https://www.donsmaps.com/atlatl.html An intersting quote:
It launches projectiles at high speeds, kills at 40 metres and can even be fitted with a silencer. Kurt Kleiner reveals the surprising sophistication of a 25 000 year old weapon.
William Robert Perkins notches the long, flexible spear onto a spur on the end of the stick in his hand. He draws back his arm, and throws. The spear flies away from the stick, an atlatl, towards the hay bales 30 metres away and thunks into the flattened cardboard beer carton that serves as a target.
Never mind that a few of the missiles miss the target and sail off into the Arizona desert beyond; everyone agrees that the atlatl can be tricky to use. Besides, Perkins, a former competition winner, has been so busy making and selling atlatls that he hasn't had much time lately to practise. The reason he's so busy is that the atlatl - a weapon that most hunters abandoned 10 000 years ago - is enjoying a renaissance. Thousands of people in America and Europe are making atlatls, competing in international tournaments, and even hunting with them.
Perkins, or Atlatl Bob as he's known, is no ordinary craftsman. Trained as an engineer, he is one of a group of people who have been studying the mechanics of this primitive weapon and found it to be surprisingly sophisticated. Using modern engineering concepts and experimental techniques, they are rediscovering ancient construction methods that make subtle but important improvements to the weapon's performance.
It sounds like you were using a spear thrower (atlatl). These are just a step above spears alone, and a step below bow and arrows--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear-thrower:
Wooden darts were known at least since the Middle Paleolithic (Schöningen, Torralba, Clacton-on-Sea and Kalambo Falls). While the spear-thrower is capable of casting a dart well over one hundred meters, it is most accurately used at distances of twenty meters or less. The spearthrower is believed to have been in use by Homo sapiens since the Upper Paleolithic (around 30,000 years ago).[10] Most stratified European finds come from the Magdalenian (late upper Palaeolithic). In this period, elaborate pieces, often in the form of animals, are common. The earliest secure data concerning atlatls have come from several caves in France dating to the Upper Paleolithic, about 21,000 to 17,000 years ago.
The bow and arrow combination overlaps and largely displaces the dart/atlatl combination except in isolated primitive tribal areas by around 1000 BC. Here is an interesting site by an organization that continues to use the atlatl: http://waa.basketmakeratlatl.com/?page_id=177 According to this website:
The bow and arrow began replacing the atlatl around 1000 B.C., but atlatls continued to be used alongside bows into modern times in some areas, most notably Mexico and the Arctic. Bows and arrows are easier to use, and more ammunition can be carried, but atlatl and dart systems have some advantages. They can be used one handed, allowing the other hand to hold a shield in war, or a paddle in a kayak. They throw a heavier projectile, which is easier to attach to a line for harpooning, and they are less affected by wet conditions.
Interesting stuff John. Also, its notable that you are not using a metal knife, etc. The Stone Age gives way to the Bronze age in Egypt around 3100 BC. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age#Egypt) So, the two facts put together put you earlier than 3100 BC in this memory, but I personally think it is probably far older than this. Probably Ice Age of earlier. So, 10,000 BC plus or minus a few thousand years. Waaaaay back.
Cordially,
S&S
PS--Here is another interesting site on the Atlatl. It refers to the spear thrower as a stone age Kalashnikov and has lots of interesting diagrams and photos: https://www.donsmaps.com/atlatl.html An intersting quote:
It launches projectiles at high speeds, kills at 40 metres and can even be fitted with a silencer. Kurt Kleiner reveals the surprising sophistication of a 25 000 year old weapon.
William Robert Perkins notches the long, flexible spear onto a spur on the end of the stick in his hand. He draws back his arm, and throws. The spear flies away from the stick, an atlatl, towards the hay bales 30 metres away and thunks into the flattened cardboard beer carton that serves as a target.
Never mind that a few of the missiles miss the target and sail off into the Arizona desert beyond; everyone agrees that the atlatl can be tricky to use. Besides, Perkins, a former competition winner, has been so busy making and selling atlatls that he hasn't had much time lately to practise. The reason he's so busy is that the atlatl - a weapon that most hunters abandoned 10 000 years ago - is enjoying a renaissance. Thousands of people in America and Europe are making atlatls, competing in international tournaments, and even hunting with them.
Perkins, or Atlatl Bob as he's known, is no ordinary craftsman. Trained as an engineer, he is one of a group of people who have been studying the mechanics of this primitive weapon and found it to be surprisingly sophisticated. Using modern engineering concepts and experimental techniques, they are rediscovering ancient construction methods that make subtle but important improvements to the weapon's performance.
John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi S&S thanks for that … once again I'm amazed at the extent of your knowledge.. As I have said before it is my opinion from BB's memories that diet played a vital role in our evolution The fact that in these early memories of being in Africa we consumed large amounts of bird flesh is very likely significant.. although I'm not smart enough to understand why … It leads me to believe that because we did we must have consumed a lot of birds eggs although I have no memories of that... it's logical to me that we must have... I'm interest in what effect this diet would have had on us.. We did of course consume other meats and fruits and vegetables... but it's this diet of birds meat that intrigues me... from what I can see it has never been talked or discussed about before in this ancient times
All The Best
All The Best
John Tat
Senior Registered
This post is about pre history Ancient Egypt I have no clue on the time lines
As I have said before BB my spiritual self had many incarnations into Ancient Egypt.. It is through these memories that I find it interesting how the experts attempt to give context to things based on little more than hunches a guess's … for example... they came up with the word "Kings" for the pre history leaders of Ancient Egypt … There were no "Kings" during Egypt's pre history
It was during this time the gods came from the light of the second sun to the tribes of the Nile... I now know they came to the tribes from Europe these "special tribes" who migrated from Europe to Africa BB's tribe was one of those tribes the sun god's came to
These "special tribes" from Europe for want of a better description were the chosen tribes of the gods and may well have been for a long time
As I said different to what the experts claim there were no Kings during Egypt's pre history
The following is a lengthy explanation when in fact it is only one very simple memory .. "There were no Kings during Egypt's pre history"
I have thought long and hard how to best explain how it was... It's impossible for me to put into words how it really was .. The memories are "that is how it was" with little understanding of why it was that way.. the following is the best I can do ..
The best I can come up with so there is some understanding is... The chiefs of the native Americans.. S&S got me thinking when he said he saw comparisons to us and the tribes of the native American's that is what lead me to this comparison .. maybe there was some "genetic" connection between us ..I base that on how we went about things in these early times and how we organized ourselves which lead me to the comparison
All of the tribes in area in a place now called Upper Egypt { I can only speak of Upper Egypt in these early time because that is where BB my pure spiritual self was) Had there own leaders/chiefs who had that right through there heritage .. although they were regularly challenged by other families within the tribe and change could and did take place
Then there was for want of a better description... a group of the leaders of the tribes of a particular area who appointed a leader of the area and between them all made decisions about the whole area they negotiated things like … sharing of all types of food.. tools and technology and very importantly women and so on The trade of women between the tribes was very important for many reasons It balanced the requirements of the tribes within the area/region for breeding , work and so on.. Most of the time there was peace between the group of tribes.. but brutal warfare also broke out between us mostly over control of land.. the more land we had the more we produced and the more say we had
It appears the experts gave these leaders of these groups of tribes.. using a native American description.. "the chief of the chiefs of tribes" the name King
To cut a very long story short … As time went by and travel became more efficient these groups of tribes with there "chief of the chiefs " as there leader formed bigger and bigger groups of tribes with more and more powerful leaders emerging of these large groups of tribes... In the end there was only Upper and Lower Egypt... the end of Egypt's pre history As I said a very short explanation of what happened
IMO the only leaders that may have been entitled to the title "King" were the eventual leaders of Upper and Lower Egypt
As I have said before BB my spiritual self had many incarnations into Ancient Egypt.. It is through these memories that I find it interesting how the experts attempt to give context to things based on little more than hunches a guess's … for example... they came up with the word "Kings" for the pre history leaders of Ancient Egypt … There were no "Kings" during Egypt's pre history
It was during this time the gods came from the light of the second sun to the tribes of the Nile... I now know they came to the tribes from Europe these "special tribes" who migrated from Europe to Africa BB's tribe was one of those tribes the sun god's came to
These "special tribes" from Europe for want of a better description were the chosen tribes of the gods and may well have been for a long time
As I said different to what the experts claim there were no Kings during Egypt's pre history
The following is a lengthy explanation when in fact it is only one very simple memory .. "There were no Kings during Egypt's pre history"
I have thought long and hard how to best explain how it was... It's impossible for me to put into words how it really was .. The memories are "that is how it was" with little understanding of why it was that way.. the following is the best I can do ..
The best I can come up with so there is some understanding is... The chiefs of the native Americans.. S&S got me thinking when he said he saw comparisons to us and the tribes of the native American's that is what lead me to this comparison .. maybe there was some "genetic" connection between us ..I base that on how we went about things in these early times and how we organized ourselves which lead me to the comparison
All of the tribes in area in a place now called Upper Egypt { I can only speak of Upper Egypt in these early time because that is where BB my pure spiritual self was) Had there own leaders/chiefs who had that right through there heritage .. although they were regularly challenged by other families within the tribe and change could and did take place
Then there was for want of a better description... a group of the leaders of the tribes of a particular area who appointed a leader of the area and between them all made decisions about the whole area they negotiated things like … sharing of all types of food.. tools and technology and very importantly women and so on The trade of women between the tribes was very important for many reasons It balanced the requirements of the tribes within the area/region for breeding , work and so on.. Most of the time there was peace between the group of tribes.. but brutal warfare also broke out between us mostly over control of land.. the more land we had the more we produced and the more say we had
It appears the experts gave these leaders of these groups of tribes.. using a native American description.. "the chief of the chiefs of tribes" the name King
To cut a very long story short … As time went by and travel became more efficient these groups of tribes with there "chief of the chiefs " as there leader formed bigger and bigger groups of tribes with more and more powerful leaders emerging of these large groups of tribes... In the end there was only Upper and Lower Egypt... the end of Egypt's pre history As I said a very short explanation of what happened
IMO the only leaders that may have been entitled to the title "King" were the eventual leaders of Upper and Lower Egypt
John Tat
Senior Registered
The fact that I now know through my interpretations of BB's my pure spiritual self's memories that the sun gods to come to the European tribes in Ancient Egypt during these early times .. raises the question why... why did the gods chose the European tribes to go to? As I said in my last post they were obviously the chosen tribes/peoples of the gods and most likely had been for a long time
I will talk about what happened after the god's came to the tribes of the Nile during my next post and explain how it was the beginnings of both the god's and the kings of Ancient Egypt... a time the experts have admitted they know very little or nothing about .. If as I believe the sun gods are the only true and real gods then these events throw a very different light on many things and is what BB's "next time" is all about
I will talk about what happened after the god's came to the tribes of the Nile during my next post and explain how it was the beginnings of both the god's and the kings of Ancient Egypt... a time the experts have admitted they know very little or nothing about .. If as I believe the sun gods are the only true and real gods then these events throw a very different light on many things and is what BB's "next time" is all about
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
I think the importance of bird meat is just that it was present in such abundance along the Nile that it allowed the tribes to "settle down" in a limited area and start forming a settled civilization--i.e., they no longer had to be wandering and following the herds they previously hunted. The Nile is a huge resource in terms of food. Not only does it flood annually and fertilize the land for farming, it provides fish and an abundance of birds for food. Here is a quote on that in terms of the delta region:
Egypt's geographic location played a major role in the variety and population of birds in Egypt. Migrating Eurasian birds exhausted from their long journey come to rest in the wetlands of the Nile delta. Ancient Egyptians capitalized from the large flocks of birds and hunted them either for food, offerings to the dead and gods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting,_fishing_and_animals_in_ancient_Egypt#Swamp_hunting
Of course, you mention that BB was in the upper Nile area, but I think there would probably have been areas of marshland there as well, though that is something you could research. BTW--the article cited gives a lot of info on all types of early hunting along the Nile. Here is another article on the general subject of food in Ancient Egypt: https://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhibitions/civil/egypt/egcl02e.html
Cordially,
S&S
I think the importance of bird meat is just that it was present in such abundance along the Nile that it allowed the tribes to "settle down" in a limited area and start forming a settled civilization--i.e., they no longer had to be wandering and following the herds they previously hunted. The Nile is a huge resource in terms of food. Not only does it flood annually and fertilize the land for farming, it provides fish and an abundance of birds for food. Here is a quote on that in terms of the delta region:
Egypt's geographic location played a major role in the variety and population of birds in Egypt. Migrating Eurasian birds exhausted from their long journey come to rest in the wetlands of the Nile delta. Ancient Egyptians capitalized from the large flocks of birds and hunted them either for food, offerings to the dead and gods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting,_fishing_and_animals_in_ancient_Egypt#Swamp_hunting
Of course, you mention that BB was in the upper Nile area, but I think there would probably have been areas of marshland there as well, though that is something you could research. BTW--the article cited gives a lot of info on all types of early hunting along the Nile. Here is another article on the general subject of food in Ancient Egypt: https://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhibitions/civil/egypt/egcl02e.html
Cordially,
S&S
John Tat
Senior Registered
HI S&S Thanks for that.. yes it does make sense to me if a food source was easily hunted then we would take advantage of that.. Something you may find interesting.. something you would not know about unless you were there.. so you may find it interesting...We were always very concerned about the production of breast milk in our women .. As you can imagine there was always plenty of children within our group of tribes.. This would mean very little to the experts and it is these types of reasons why they know little about these times... That such a basic thing... we were not only very aware off but also observed what foods produced more milk.. we understood that.. There were no baby foods in these times and I have no memories of feeding children animal milk so breast milk with all of its goodness was extremely important
All The Best
All The Best
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John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi Ken Thanks for that It points out very real problems
From being there I can see and understand the reasons why the experts guess about most things about pre history Egypt and even the early dynasties of Ancient Egypt. They find which I know from being there
is nothing more than scraps/junk of what was there and who we were and from those scraps of what we left behind only have the options of making guess's about many things
Even my family of tribes who came from Europe around a 1000 of us... the experts chances of finding any evidence we existed is zero.. yet we are the tribes the sun gods came to.. most likely the most important event in Ancient Egypt's history... they know nothing about us or the event itself and what happened after that event.. These events along with many others the experts have no clues about are crucial to understanding the history of Ancient Egypt.. yet they have no knowledge of any of these events because they have found nothing that would guide them to an understanding of these events
When I look at what the experts have found from pre history Egypt and even the early dynasties I look with amazement at there conclusions To give some context to what I'm talking about I will give my opinion from being there what percentage of what was there and who we were they have found 0.0000000000000000001% maybe even longer ..that gives context to what is going on ..but that does not stop them from continuing to guess and write about there conclusions that others read them and believe and write about them and people connect to them... all of which are totally unrealistic
All The Best
From being there I can see and understand the reasons why the experts guess about most things about pre history Egypt and even the early dynasties of Ancient Egypt. They find which I know from being there
is nothing more than scraps/junk of what was there and who we were and from those scraps of what we left behind only have the options of making guess's about many things
Even my family of tribes who came from Europe around a 1000 of us... the experts chances of finding any evidence we existed is zero.. yet we are the tribes the sun gods came to.. most likely the most important event in Ancient Egypt's history... they know nothing about us or the event itself and what happened after that event.. These events along with many others the experts have no clues about are crucial to understanding the history of Ancient Egypt.. yet they have no knowledge of any of these events because they have found nothing that would guide them to an understanding of these events
When I look at what the experts have found from pre history Egypt and even the early dynasties I look with amazement at there conclusions To give some context to what I'm talking about I will give my opinion from being there what percentage of what was there and who we were they have found 0.0000000000000000001% maybe even longer ..that gives context to what is going on ..but that does not stop them from continuing to guess and write about there conclusions that others read them and believe and write about them and people connect to them... all of which are totally unrealistic
All The Best
John Tat
Senior Registered
As I have said before I'm not asking or expecting anyone to believe what I talk about in this post .. These are the memories of BB my pure spiritual self as bet I John Tat can understand them.. Also as I have said before there are gaps within some memories... with the smaller gaps I John Tat have been able through meditation and my feelings about the memory and other memories fill in these smaller gaps with what I believe have a reasonable level of accuracy I understand which are the smaller gaps and others that are bits and pieces scattered memories so to speak that I cannot connect together
This post once again goes against most of what is out there another reason to be skeptical about what I talk about.. BB my pure spiritual self was there when these things happened .. most of what I talk about is first hand knowledge of the events... that's all I can say in defense of what I talk about What I talk about are results of years of meditation and dedication to what is going on . most was not easy.. Its similar to people talking about years of work and study on a subject... I select what I talk about.. When I read though the post which has many pages and will take several posts there aren't many memories at all .. most is about my explanations and my opinions of the memories. As I said..most of my memories are bits and pieces not complete.. as I said some are closer together which allows me to give some context to them Most of the others are scattered memories they are all over the place so I talk about them with no real idea when they happened and over how many incarnations the memories happened in … As I result I can talk about things that may cover several incarnation without knowing it The memories that are complete only cover very short periods of time .. like an hour or two even less which does not allow me to put them in there proper context of what was going on There is no written history of these times I talk about in this post that would allow me to understand the timelines and the context of the memories
Before I begin talking about how the gods and kings of Ancient Egypt began...in my opinion its important to talk about some things I have talked about before and some new memories I haven't talked about before to give a foundation to what happened
The coming of the sun gods to the tribes of the Nile.. to the "special tribes" from Europe (as I have said the gods probably came to us because when we arrived in Africa from Europe we were far move advanced than the African tribes) BB my pure spiritual self was there when the sun gods came to our group of tribes
As I have said... we were very dark brown not black had black hair many of us had green eyes others blue.. I have no memories of any brown eyes within my group of tribes which seems strange to me when we had such dark skin and black hair
Things like that stands out to me .. its these small things/memories I find very interesting... a couple of others of BB's simple but scattered memories … I have no memories of cooking fish my only memories of eating fish is eating it raw...we would make up bundles of long/high grass and tie them in 2-3 places ..we would use them to knock fruit off trees.. that was the quickest and easiest way to get the fruit doing the least damage to the fruit … The stories of sharpened rocks and stones.. I have no memories off.. I have memories of using crocodile scales to shave ourselves .. cut our hair.. skin animals and cut meat
We probably sharpened them but I have no memories of doing that
Our appearance was very important to us.. I have memories of wearing human teeth around my neck.. wearing headbands with small bones hanging on my forehead... wearing coloured stones around our wrists .. Sometimes I painted my face brown/red by blending river mud and blood together.. with all of these memories and more I always had black around my eyes ..I think it was charcoal but I'm not 100% sure of that
These are just a few of many simple but scattered memories I have that have no relevance or importance to anything that I find interesting
That's enough for this post
The next post will be about
How did the gods come to us?
This post once again goes against most of what is out there another reason to be skeptical about what I talk about.. BB my pure spiritual self was there when these things happened .. most of what I talk about is first hand knowledge of the events... that's all I can say in defense of what I talk about What I talk about are results of years of meditation and dedication to what is going on . most was not easy.. Its similar to people talking about years of work and study on a subject... I select what I talk about.. When I read though the post which has many pages and will take several posts there aren't many memories at all .. most is about my explanations and my opinions of the memories. As I said..most of my memories are bits and pieces not complete.. as I said some are closer together which allows me to give some context to them Most of the others are scattered memories they are all over the place so I talk about them with no real idea when they happened and over how many incarnations the memories happened in … As I result I can talk about things that may cover several incarnation without knowing it The memories that are complete only cover very short periods of time .. like an hour or two even less which does not allow me to put them in there proper context of what was going on There is no written history of these times I talk about in this post that would allow me to understand the timelines and the context of the memories
Before I begin talking about how the gods and kings of Ancient Egypt began...in my opinion its important to talk about some things I have talked about before and some new memories I haven't talked about before to give a foundation to what happened
The coming of the sun gods to the tribes of the Nile.. to the "special tribes" from Europe (as I have said the gods probably came to us because when we arrived in Africa from Europe we were far move advanced than the African tribes) BB my pure spiritual self was there when the sun gods came to our group of tribes
As I have said... we were very dark brown not black had black hair many of us had green eyes others blue.. I have no memories of any brown eyes within my group of tribes which seems strange to me when we had such dark skin and black hair
Things like that stands out to me .. its these small things/memories I find very interesting... a couple of others of BB's simple but scattered memories … I have no memories of cooking fish my only memories of eating fish is eating it raw...we would make up bundles of long/high grass and tie them in 2-3 places ..we would use them to knock fruit off trees.. that was the quickest and easiest way to get the fruit doing the least damage to the fruit … The stories of sharpened rocks and stones.. I have no memories off.. I have memories of using crocodile scales to shave ourselves .. cut our hair.. skin animals and cut meat
We probably sharpened them but I have no memories of doing that
Our appearance was very important to us.. I have memories of wearing human teeth around my neck.. wearing headbands with small bones hanging on my forehead... wearing coloured stones around our wrists .. Sometimes I painted my face brown/red by blending river mud and blood together.. with all of these memories and more I always had black around my eyes ..I think it was charcoal but I'm not 100% sure of that
These are just a few of many simple but scattered memories I have that have no relevance or importance to anything that I find interesting
That's enough for this post
The next post will be about
How did the gods come to us?
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John Tat
Senior Registered
It's been a month since my last post.....I will continue with my memories...As this is a continuation of the last post I believe it's important to read the first paragraph of my last post before you begin as it gives a background about how it happened
How did the god's come to us? I have talked about this before .. some of it I haven't because I have included some scattered memories that are relevant to what happened
A second sun appeared in the sky ... to say it was disturbing to us is a major understatement As ancient entities it was a very disturbing event
As with the sun it was to bright to keep looking directly at it's rays shone down upon us and all that surrounded us... it must have been brighter than the sun as I have no memories of a competing light
Then like actors on stage appearing out of the spotlights the gods began to appear one by one out of the rays of the second sun... They were physical gods both men and women gods with each having a lion walking unrestrained beside time... I think there was twelve of them... I'm not exactly sure... they were all dressed like kings of Ancient Egypt .. they were magnificent.. they were physical gods...
they were and are sun gods who came from the light of the second sun.. That's how it happened except for some unrelated scattered memories such as an ankh shaped object which after analyzing the memory was obviously some sort of communication devise
It's frustrating because that is where that memory ends ...these are the things that really annoys me.. I know there must have been much more to this event I have no memories off
Then later on again while in deep meditation with BB my pure spiritual self the memories about the god's begin again When I think about these memories I have no clue what the timeline was between the memories and what happened in between them.. That really p....s me off... was it another visit.. a millennium or so later or the same visit? ...I have no clue
The god's selected around fifty of us.. both men and women and prayed with us, and danced and chanted with us.. My next memory of the ritual/ceremony is... all fifty or so of us including the goods cut ourselves and dripped our blood into a vessel .. then all of us including the gods danced and chanted around the vessel of blood.. All of the gods had several things hanging around there necks.. one was a solid round stone .. another a ankh shape....One of the god's took the round stone that was hanging around his neck and put it in the vessel of blood...then the gods held the vessel of blood with the stone in it high in the air and chanted and sung a pray.. then they went to us one by one and placed the round stone on our foreheads leaving behind the blood from the vessel .. then the gods chanted and danced and during that time part of them crossed over to us.. From that moment on for all fifty or so of us everything changed we were different... very different Again the memory ends there... again very annoying because there must have been many great events happen after the ritual/ceremony ended
I fully understand that this basic description of who the gods were and are goes against everything that is out there about who and what gods are meant to be The way I John Tat sees it...I/BB was there when all of this happened .. The fact they were physical gods who came to us .. not mystical gods who came in dreams and visions says plenty about who and what true and real gods are
These events happened in ancient times... we were ancient entities.. the rituals and ceremonies were also ancient... how else could it have happened?
That's enough for this post I will continue later with another post
How did the god's come to us? I have talked about this before .. some of it I haven't because I have included some scattered memories that are relevant to what happened
A second sun appeared in the sky ... to say it was disturbing to us is a major understatement As ancient entities it was a very disturbing event
As with the sun it was to bright to keep looking directly at it's rays shone down upon us and all that surrounded us... it must have been brighter than the sun as I have no memories of a competing light
Then like actors on stage appearing out of the spotlights the gods began to appear one by one out of the rays of the second sun... They were physical gods both men and women gods with each having a lion walking unrestrained beside time... I think there was twelve of them... I'm not exactly sure... they were all dressed like kings of Ancient Egypt .. they were magnificent.. they were physical gods...
they were and are sun gods who came from the light of the second sun.. That's how it happened except for some unrelated scattered memories such as an ankh shaped object which after analyzing the memory was obviously some sort of communication devise
It's frustrating because that is where that memory ends ...these are the things that really annoys me.. I know there must have been much more to this event I have no memories off
Then later on again while in deep meditation with BB my pure spiritual self the memories about the god's begin again When I think about these memories I have no clue what the timeline was between the memories and what happened in between them.. That really p....s me off... was it another visit.. a millennium or so later or the same visit? ...I have no clue
The god's selected around fifty of us.. both men and women and prayed with us, and danced and chanted with us.. My next memory of the ritual/ceremony is... all fifty or so of us including the goods cut ourselves and dripped our blood into a vessel .. then all of us including the gods danced and chanted around the vessel of blood.. All of the gods had several things hanging around there necks.. one was a solid round stone .. another a ankh shape....One of the god's took the round stone that was hanging around his neck and put it in the vessel of blood...then the gods held the vessel of blood with the stone in it high in the air and chanted and sung a pray.. then they went to us one by one and placed the round stone on our foreheads leaving behind the blood from the vessel .. then the gods chanted and danced and during that time part of them crossed over to us.. From that moment on for all fifty or so of us everything changed we were different... very different Again the memory ends there... again very annoying because there must have been many great events happen after the ritual/ceremony ended
I fully understand that this basic description of who the gods were and are goes against everything that is out there about who and what gods are meant to be The way I John Tat sees it...I/BB was there when all of this happened .. The fact they were physical gods who came to us .. not mystical gods who came in dreams and visions says plenty about who and what true and real gods are
These events happened in ancient times... we were ancient entities.. the rituals and ceremonies were also ancient... how else could it have happened?
That's enough for this post I will continue later with another post
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
As always, very interesting. "Gods" that materialize in some way to become "physical" are not that unusual in old tales. However, to some extent it is difficult to distinguish those who are innately "gods" from "gods" who seem to be so by virtue of technological advance. In this regard it should be noted that we may also develop the ability to teleport via science at some point. Star Trek has used that as a part of their shows for a long time, de-materializing and re-materializing characters at distant locations. (Aside from the "glimmering" special effects that Star Trek adds when its "Transporter" is used, this sounds very much like what happened when the "gods" appeared). I have read other sci fi stories over the years that also involved something of this type as a means of long distance transportation (or more properly "teleportation") from one locale to another, including between different star systems or perhaps in this case from the "second sun" (which might actually have been some kind of air or space vehicle).
There is a saying that is becoming more common (first recited by Arthur C. Clarke): "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." So, this may be something of the type. He might have added a corollary: Any sufficiently advanced beings are indistinguishable from gods. Both would, of course, only be true in the eyes of much less advanced beings.
However, to me the most interesting parts of what you have described involve the prayer and the becoming part of each other via the mixing of blood in a vessel.
In terms of the prayer, "who" would gods pray to? Were there "gods" who were higher than them that they would pray to? If so, the identify of these higher gods would be very important.
In terms of the blood/stone ceremony by which the gods became part of the group of 50, also very interesting. I'm inclined to believe that the round stone dipped in the blood and then applied to your foreheads was a device of some kind (like the ankh which you now recognize as a device for communication). I've got some ideas about what it might be intended to do, but I'd rather get more information on the changes that this ceremony/stone brought about before saying anything more on the matter.
Cordially,
S&S
As always, very interesting. "Gods" that materialize in some way to become "physical" are not that unusual in old tales. However, to some extent it is difficult to distinguish those who are innately "gods" from "gods" who seem to be so by virtue of technological advance. In this regard it should be noted that we may also develop the ability to teleport via science at some point. Star Trek has used that as a part of their shows for a long time, de-materializing and re-materializing characters at distant locations. (Aside from the "glimmering" special effects that Star Trek adds when its "Transporter" is used, this sounds very much like what happened when the "gods" appeared). I have read other sci fi stories over the years that also involved something of this type as a means of long distance transportation (or more properly "teleportation") from one locale to another, including between different star systems or perhaps in this case from the "second sun" (which might actually have been some kind of air or space vehicle).
There is a saying that is becoming more common (first recited by Arthur C. Clarke): "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." So, this may be something of the type. He might have added a corollary: Any sufficiently advanced beings are indistinguishable from gods. Both would, of course, only be true in the eyes of much less advanced beings.
However, to me the most interesting parts of what you have described involve the prayer and the becoming part of each other via the mixing of blood in a vessel.
In terms of the prayer, "who" would gods pray to? Were there "gods" who were higher than them that they would pray to? If so, the identify of these higher gods would be very important.
In terms of the blood/stone ceremony by which the gods became part of the group of 50, also very interesting. I'm inclined to believe that the round stone dipped in the blood and then applied to your foreheads was a device of some kind (like the ankh which you now recognize as a device for communication). I've got some ideas about what it might be intended to do, but I'd rather get more information on the changes that this ceremony/stone brought about before saying anything more on the matter.
Cordially,
S&S
John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi S&S Great post as usual ... Very good point about who were the gods praying to.. I had never considered that... My initial thoughts are... Maybe they had to conjure up an environment for it to happen
In other words.. not only did they have to put in motion what they wanted to achieve but also to prepare our brains and minds to accept what was about to happen to us.. In otter words we may have been in some form of trance... although I have no memories of that...that is of course all guess work...But it may indicate that not even gods have magic wands they wave to make things happen in the physical They must put in motion a series of events that always have an outcome either good average or bad dependent upon how each event was handled to make things happen in the physical... I talk in later posts that is how how Ancient Egypt was built from the ground up... from a bunch of half organized tribes into the greatest civilization the. world has seen... one series of events after the other that always had an outcome that grew in complexity at a rate not possible through normal evolution
All The Best
PS. I will talk about the effects it had on us in my next post it was not only the effects but also abilities.... I found it interesting that one particular ability we all have and is never talked about by the experts in how things evolved was advanced in us to a very high level
In other words.. not only did they have to put in motion what they wanted to achieve but also to prepare our brains and minds to accept what was about to happen to us.. In otter words we may have been in some form of trance... although I have no memories of that...that is of course all guess work...But it may indicate that not even gods have magic wands they wave to make things happen in the physical They must put in motion a series of events that always have an outcome either good average or bad dependent upon how each event was handled to make things happen in the physical... I talk in later posts that is how how Ancient Egypt was built from the ground up... from a bunch of half organized tribes into the greatest civilization the. world has seen... one series of events after the other that always had an outcome that grew in complexity at a rate not possible through normal evolution
All The Best
PS. I will talk about the effects it had on us in my next post it was not only the effects but also abilities.... I found it interesting that one particular ability we all have and is never talked about by the experts in how things evolved was advanced in us to a very high level
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SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
I'm interested in your follow-up on the matters mentioned above, but also interested in the whole manner in which the sun gods manifested physically on this planet. Their appearance out of a "second sun" seems to indicate some form of materialization of fully grown physical persons as an initial appearance. However, if I'm not mistaken (this is getting to be a very long thread) you previously mentioned them also being born to "mothers of the gods" in the distant past and likewise indicated that this is how they will reappear when they return. So, I'm trying to get this all straightened out in my mind. Why be born and have to go through the growing up process if they could simply materialize in a location?
Cordially,
S&S
I'm interested in your follow-up on the matters mentioned above, but also interested in the whole manner in which the sun gods manifested physically on this planet. Their appearance out of a "second sun" seems to indicate some form of materialization of fully grown physical persons as an initial appearance. However, if I'm not mistaken (this is getting to be a very long thread) you previously mentioned them also being born to "mothers of the gods" in the distant past and likewise indicated that this is how they will reappear when they return. So, I'm trying to get this all straightened out in my mind. Why be born and have to go through the growing up process if they could simply materialize in a location?
Cordially,
S&S
John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi S&S Sorry for the delay in my reply I missed it....
As I have said before ... The physical gods were born to physical mothers who came from the south and the east .... Being physical gods the physical body they occupied/occupy has a limited lifespan .. or they can choose to leave the physical if that is what they want to do To return to physical form they must be reborn to the physical to physical mothers who came from the south and the east These mothers of the gods will reincarnate back to the physical... During my meditations with BB I have tried to determine when and how that will happen..... they will return when needed that is what I have always understood will happen Who will be the physical fathers of the god's .. This is very complicated and not even I through BB can fully explain It has something to do with spiritual heritage just as it is with the mothers of the gods...Just as there are physical blood lines/heritage for kings and queens.... there are spiritual lines/heritage for the physical mothers and fathers of the real and only true gods
Sometimes I feel BB and "the others" qualify....because I/BB and "the others" go way way back to and even much further to when the gods came to us came to us from the light of the second sun ... but that's only a guess What is more likely is the high priests from pre history Egypt will be involved
I hope this helps... if you have anymore questions I will be happy to answer them
All The Best
As I have said before ... The physical gods were born to physical mothers who came from the south and the east .... Being physical gods the physical body they occupied/occupy has a limited lifespan .. or they can choose to leave the physical if that is what they want to do To return to physical form they must be reborn to the physical to physical mothers who came from the south and the east These mothers of the gods will reincarnate back to the physical... During my meditations with BB I have tried to determine when and how that will happen..... they will return when needed that is what I have always understood will happen Who will be the physical fathers of the god's .. This is very complicated and not even I through BB can fully explain It has something to do with spiritual heritage just as it is with the mothers of the gods...Just as there are physical blood lines/heritage for kings and queens.... there are spiritual lines/heritage for the physical mothers and fathers of the real and only true gods
Sometimes I feel BB and "the others" qualify....because I/BB and "the others" go way way back to and even much further to when the gods came to us came to us from the light of the second sun ... but that's only a guess What is more likely is the high priests from pre history Egypt will be involved
I hope this helps... if you have anymore questions I will be happy to answer them
All The Best
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SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
So were they born of physical mothers from the South and East and grew up before they appeared to the tribes? It sounds like there was no instant materialization involved and that the second Sun might have just been part of their godly "regalia" like the lions--i.e., something that served to emphasize their godly majesty and power--when they made their appearance to the tribes. I think it is possible that like the Ankh, the second sun also had another purpose and use for them--possibly as a source of their power. Query: Did they only appear with the second sun, or did they appear sometimes without it?
Cordially,
S&S
PS--based on what you have said earlier about the sun gods traveling via light from distant locations followed by incarnation at a different location (like our planet), it sound like they would have had to "make" or "create" tools like the Ankh, second sun, etc. when they arrived. But I'm just speculating on that. Maybe they also had a way of sending them in the "Light" so that they could bring such things along with them when they came. But if so, such physical objects couldn't be "born" from "physical mothers", so I have to assume that the sun gods had some other way of making them "physical".
So were they born of physical mothers from the South and East and grew up before they appeared to the tribes? It sounds like there was no instant materialization involved and that the second Sun might have just been part of their godly "regalia" like the lions--i.e., something that served to emphasize their godly majesty and power--when they made their appearance to the tribes. I think it is possible that like the Ankh, the second sun also had another purpose and use for them--possibly as a source of their power. Query: Did they only appear with the second sun, or did they appear sometimes without it?
Cordially,
S&S
PS--based on what you have said earlier about the sun gods traveling via light from distant locations followed by incarnation at a different location (like our planet), it sound like they would have had to "make" or "create" tools like the Ankh, second sun, etc. when they arrived. But I'm just speculating on that. Maybe they also had a way of sending them in the "Light" so that they could bring such things along with them when they came. But if so, such physical objects couldn't be "born" from "physical mothers", so I have to assume that the sun gods had some other way of making them "physical".
John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi S&S I have no memories of them coming to us in other ways.. In later posts I talk about my frustrations with memories not only about that gods but all other things ending after a brief memory then later during other meditations with BB my pure spiritual self they begin again and I have no clue or idea if they were at the same time or later... possibility millenniums later .. and what happened immediately before and after the memories and what happened in-between the memories all of which would be and are critical for more understandings .. As a result no memories are complete to themselves
.. like when the sun gods came to us from the light of the second sun.. that memory ends there... Imagine how important the memories would be of what happened after they arrived?
Then there is nothing about the gods until during another mediation later on with BB with the ritual/ceremony we went through which also ends abruptly ... when again there must have been much more of great importance.. It's really annoying to me ... As time goes by some of the blanks do get filled in
I have strong feelings that the most important memories are withheld by BB ... It happens to often for it not to the case
It's possible you have misunderstood many things about what I have talked about the gods... for example... I never said the gods travelled within the light without some sort of craft... I have never said if they travelled in spiritual or physical form...and on and on... What I did tell you was that they came from a place exactly the same as here... exact in every way physically .. If you remember I talked about when BB asked the gods where did they come from? and one of the god's pointed to a bush and said to us... see that bush.. that bush is exactly the same and is in the exact same place where we come from
I have never understood what that means
I can speculate all I want but none gives me any real answers.. was the second sun a gateway that was then end of a travel within the light?.. how would I know? ..Why was it.. is it.. important the gods are conceived here to physical mothers from the south and east who then have all the abilities of gods including the ability of travelling within the light? and then have the abilities to return whenever they want while there physical bodies exist.. how would I know why?
I would love to know why the mothers of the gods had to/have to come from the south and east? It's way above my pay grade to even speculate about such things.. what was to the south and east of the tribes of the Nile that was so important to the gods?
As I said there are huge gaps in my memories and the memories themselves are brief .. so many questions go unanswered
As I have said before everything the gods need are here waiting for there return... It has something to do with the North star.. The north star is very important to them
If you have any further questions please ask them
All The Best
.. like when the sun gods came to us from the light of the second sun.. that memory ends there... Imagine how important the memories would be of what happened after they arrived?
Then there is nothing about the gods until during another mediation later on with BB with the ritual/ceremony we went through which also ends abruptly ... when again there must have been much more of great importance.. It's really annoying to me ... As time goes by some of the blanks do get filled in
I have strong feelings that the most important memories are withheld by BB ... It happens to often for it not to the case
It's possible you have misunderstood many things about what I have talked about the gods... for example... I never said the gods travelled within the light without some sort of craft... I have never said if they travelled in spiritual or physical form...and on and on... What I did tell you was that they came from a place exactly the same as here... exact in every way physically .. If you remember I talked about when BB asked the gods where did they come from? and one of the god's pointed to a bush and said to us... see that bush.. that bush is exactly the same and is in the exact same place where we come from
I have never understood what that means
I can speculate all I want but none gives me any real answers.. was the second sun a gateway that was then end of a travel within the light?.. how would I know? ..Why was it.. is it.. important the gods are conceived here to physical mothers from the south and east who then have all the abilities of gods including the ability of travelling within the light? and then have the abilities to return whenever they want while there physical bodies exist.. how would I know why?
I would love to know why the mothers of the gods had to/have to come from the south and east? It's way above my pay grade to even speculate about such things.. what was to the south and east of the tribes of the Nile that was so important to the gods?
As I said there are huge gaps in my memories and the memories themselves are brief .. so many questions go unanswered
As I have said before everything the gods need are here waiting for there return... It has something to do with the North star.. The north star is very important to them
If you have any further questions please ask them
All The Best
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
OK, I think the "bush" resolves one of the questions I have always had--whether the sun gods that met the tribes came from our world or another. The ones who came to the tribes were, at least, from here. Where their "kind" came from before may still be an open question to some (though I think I know the answer). Likewise, they seem to be native to a different level of existence, requiring incarnation to be a part of the physical world (though they may have ways of influence from beyond the physical as well). I have some ideas, but I'm going to look into the Polaris connection first.
Cordially,
S&S
OK, I think the "bush" resolves one of the questions I have always had--whether the sun gods that met the tribes came from our world or another. The ones who came to the tribes were, at least, from here. Where their "kind" came from before may still be an open question to some (though I think I know the answer). Likewise, they seem to be native to a different level of existence, requiring incarnation to be a part of the physical world (though they may have ways of influence from beyond the physical as well). I have some ideas, but I'm going to look into the Polaris connection first.
Cordially,
S&S
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SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
Your reference to the North star (which is not necessarily Polaris) led me quickly to new knowledge--things I should have known but didn't about the precession of the equinoxes and the stars that mark these changes. Meanwhile, I have been learning a lot more over the last few weeks about the divine counsel and the rebellion of the "gods" in the heavens as revealed in the Old Testament--though they may not yet have been in open rebellion against the Most High during the early period that BB allows you to see (in small snippets). There are also tie ins to the Harrowing of Hades by Jesus in the New Testament, where he invaded the realm of the dead and smashed the power of those that previously controlled its processes. (According to contemporary Greek--and possibly some Jewish beliefs--at the time of Christ, these processes could include reincarnation). Nothing is complete, but I believe the picture is becoming clearer.
Cordially,
S&S
Your reference to the North star (which is not necessarily Polaris) led me quickly to new knowledge--things I should have known but didn't about the precession of the equinoxes and the stars that mark these changes. Meanwhile, I have been learning a lot more over the last few weeks about the divine counsel and the rebellion of the "gods" in the heavens as revealed in the Old Testament--though they may not yet have been in open rebellion against the Most High during the early period that BB allows you to see (in small snippets). There are also tie ins to the Harrowing of Hades by Jesus in the New Testament, where he invaded the realm of the dead and smashed the power of those that previously controlled its processes. (According to contemporary Greek--and possibly some Jewish beliefs--at the time of Christ, these processes could include reincarnation). Nothing is complete, but I believe the picture is becoming clearer.
Cordially,
S&S
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
On the North Star issue, I was surprised to find that the "pole" star changes over time with the precession of the equinoxes. Since this is also the reason for different "astrological" ages, the shifting of the pole star may also be taken as having something to do with these ages and the shifts between them.
Cordially,
S&S
On the North Star issue, I was surprised to find that the "pole" star changes over time with the precession of the equinoxes. Since this is also the reason for different "astrological" ages, the shifting of the pole star may also be taken as having something to do with these ages and the shifts between them.
Cordially,
S&S
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John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi S&S very interesting... thanks... I find it extremely interesting that there may be some connections between my gods the sun gods of Ancient Egypt and your god That maybe just maybe there was a rebellion between the gods as recorded in the Christian religion maybe even a war Is it possible my gods were part of the "divine council" a term obviously created by Christian when it may have been something very different ... like the ruling council of the gods which ended up with major conflicts between them.. the reincarnation process is a good example of control and power and could have without doubt caused major conflicts between the gods... because as I have said before control was taken over by one god many reincarnation process's were interlocked where you could incarnate from one place to another which this god closed all of the pathways to the other reincarnation process's ... my god's will take back control of next time which I have talked about before so the conflicts are properly continuing on
What you found out about the North Star I find interesting I wish I had more memories about the significance of the North A Star It doesn't surprise me that over millenniums the star changes but the star always performs in the same way When I have seen the North Star during my meditations with BB he always shows it to me as pulsing light .. which must be important
Over several memories a pulsing light has been very important and may have something to do with travelling within the light If you find anything else please post it
All The Best
What you found out about the North Star I find interesting I wish I had more memories about the significance of the North A Star It doesn't surprise me that over millenniums the star changes but the star always performs in the same way When I have seen the North Star during my meditations with BB he always shows it to me as pulsing light .. which must be important
Over several memories a pulsing light has been very important and may have something to do with travelling within the light If you find anything else please post it
All The Best
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SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
Not much time at the moment, but I can put out a few things rather quickly.
First, I do believe that some at least of the sun gods were likely members of this divine council. However, it is hard to know how many sun gods were actually members of this high body. Others may have been part of an entourage (i.e., assistants to their highest members) serving the ones who served on the divine council. The hierarchy taught in the Old Testament is the usual organizational pyramid. At the top is the Most High = God the Almighty, etc. I will used the typical English term Jehovah rather than the tetragrammaton for his name. He is also referred to as Elohim. Below him are the Elohim ("divine beings"), and below them are the angels, a class of messengers, but also seemingly warriors, etc. The term "elohim" is especially important. It is a word that can be both plural and singular. One can only tell by the words (like verbs) that surround it. For example, in English "sheep" is both singular and plural. One might say "that is my sheep" (and you would know the term referred to one sheep), or one might say "those are my sheep" (and you would know that there were more than one--just based on how the term is used). Elohim is a similar term, and can mean "god" or "gods" depending on how it is used. However, as noted, one Elohim is referred to in the Old Testament as God most high, and God above other gods, etc.
Second, the "gods" were at a certain point in the Old Testament given the supervision of different people groups by the Most High such that there were different "gods" assigned to and associated with different people groups. Jehovah would later call out "Abraham" and begin a new people group of his own that He would concentrate on. However, Jehovah was not pleased with the way the members of the council assigned this duty were performing. In a "take down" in Psalm 82 he rebukes them for their poor performance and failure to protect the people under their dominion:
82 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty (elohim); he judgeth among the gods (elohim).
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
This is from the KJV, but another translation is used by Dr. Michael Heiser, a Biblical scholar who has studied this subject deeply in the link below. I would suggest that you read this linked article to learn more about what the Bible says on the matter:
https://blog.logos.com/2017/10/the-...ephilim&utm_campaign=promo-theunseenrealm-otc
BTW, the New Testament talks about War in Heaven, but I will leave that for another post.
Third, the principle star in the Polaris star group is a variable, or pulsing star: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaris
Cordially,
S&S
Not much time at the moment, but I can put out a few things rather quickly.
First, I do believe that some at least of the sun gods were likely members of this divine council. However, it is hard to know how many sun gods were actually members of this high body. Others may have been part of an entourage (i.e., assistants to their highest members) serving the ones who served on the divine council. The hierarchy taught in the Old Testament is the usual organizational pyramid. At the top is the Most High = God the Almighty, etc. I will used the typical English term Jehovah rather than the tetragrammaton for his name. He is also referred to as Elohim. Below him are the Elohim ("divine beings"), and below them are the angels, a class of messengers, but also seemingly warriors, etc. The term "elohim" is especially important. It is a word that can be both plural and singular. One can only tell by the words (like verbs) that surround it. For example, in English "sheep" is both singular and plural. One might say "that is my sheep" (and you would know the term referred to one sheep), or one might say "those are my sheep" (and you would know that there were more than one--just based on how the term is used). Elohim is a similar term, and can mean "god" or "gods" depending on how it is used. However, as noted, one Elohim is referred to in the Old Testament as God most high, and God above other gods, etc.
Second, the "gods" were at a certain point in the Old Testament given the supervision of different people groups by the Most High such that there were different "gods" assigned to and associated with different people groups. Jehovah would later call out "Abraham" and begin a new people group of his own that He would concentrate on. However, Jehovah was not pleased with the way the members of the council assigned this duty were performing. In a "take down" in Psalm 82 he rebukes them for their poor performance and failure to protect the people under their dominion:
82 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty (elohim); he judgeth among the gods (elohim).
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
This is from the KJV, but another translation is used by Dr. Michael Heiser, a Biblical scholar who has studied this subject deeply in the link below. I would suggest that you read this linked article to learn more about what the Bible says on the matter:
https://blog.logos.com/2017/10/the-...ephilim&utm_campaign=promo-theunseenrealm-otc
BTW, the New Testament talks about War in Heaven, but I will leave that for another post.
Third, the principle star in the Polaris star group is a variable, or pulsing star: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaris
Cordially,
S&S
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John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi S&S very interesting stuff ... Read the link about the gods It's interesting very interesting The first question in my mind is.... if that is all real then is what happened ...is it as taught by the Christian religion or more like a conflict (war) between the gods something similar as betrayed in science fiction? which continues to this day ...This also raises major questions about who and what all of the god's really are?
The North Star in all of its forms is very important
All The Best
The North Star in all of its forms is very important
All The Best
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SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
I think the science fiction analogy breaks down because the science fiction I have read (and science generally) never or hardly ever acknowledges the existence of immaterial beings and supernatural gods.
Admittedly, some beings referred to as "gods" can be found in stuff like the Marvel Comics Universe (e.g., Thor, Asgard, etc.), but when you explore further you find that they are not really "gods" in the sense that we think of them. They are "super" but not "supernatural".
Also, I think there is a world of difference between these two. I know that I previously posted a saying from Arthur C. Clarke to the effect that sufficiently advanced science can seem magical, but it is still not real "magic". A good stage magician using sleight of hand and misdirection can also do things that seem magical, but it ain't magic. I guess that is the difference I'm talking about = the difference between beings who are really "gods" or GOD, and those who only "seem" like they are "gods" or GOD due to our limited perspective and their advanced science.
From my perspective, I have no problem is believing that the "sun gods" are not supernatural "gods" but are instead very advanced "super" beings with a very advanced science. For me that is still a possibility. And, actually, I'm not sure I see a real difference between what they would be either way--since either way they are created beings. However, I cannot agree that my GOD (the supernatural and un-created creator) fits into this category. Likewise, if the sun gods are super, but not supernatural, I am not sure how I could fit them into the Biblical texts we are looking into.
So, it would be up to you how you wanted to see the sun gods. I'm OK either way, though I think the idea that the sun gods are supernatural beings fits in better with the Biblical texts we are dealing with. Maybe it would be best to just assume they are supernatural for the sake of the conversation.
In terms of the North Star, I have some ideas, but for the moment I think it is important to distinguish between things that BB is concerned about because they are part of his religion and things that he actually can witness to. These two are obviously going to overlap. However, as you may have noticed, I'm mostly interested in the things that he has actually seen and experienced--i.e., his first hand testimony.
With the "North Star" he has given us nothing that indicates any first hand knowledge of what is supposed to be important about it. So, it may just be a hold-over from the Egyptian religion, which "located" heaven in the direction of the Pole Star. If he has anything else to make known about it he could make it known. This is like a lot of other things he doesn't let you see. It is strange that he "hides" things from you. Why should BB ="you" hide things from himself/yourself? Even given the distinction between BB as the spiritual self and you as the physical self it still doesn't explain why he doesn't let you know these things.
Cordially,
S&S
I think the science fiction analogy breaks down because the science fiction I have read (and science generally) never or hardly ever acknowledges the existence of immaterial beings and supernatural gods.
Admittedly, some beings referred to as "gods" can be found in stuff like the Marvel Comics Universe (e.g., Thor, Asgard, etc.), but when you explore further you find that they are not really "gods" in the sense that we think of them. They are "super" but not "supernatural".
Also, I think there is a world of difference between these two. I know that I previously posted a saying from Arthur C. Clarke to the effect that sufficiently advanced science can seem magical, but it is still not real "magic". A good stage magician using sleight of hand and misdirection can also do things that seem magical, but it ain't magic. I guess that is the difference I'm talking about = the difference between beings who are really "gods" or GOD, and those who only "seem" like they are "gods" or GOD due to our limited perspective and their advanced science.
From my perspective, I have no problem is believing that the "sun gods" are not supernatural "gods" but are instead very advanced "super" beings with a very advanced science. For me that is still a possibility. And, actually, I'm not sure I see a real difference between what they would be either way--since either way they are created beings. However, I cannot agree that my GOD (the supernatural and un-created creator) fits into this category. Likewise, if the sun gods are super, but not supernatural, I am not sure how I could fit them into the Biblical texts we are looking into.
So, it would be up to you how you wanted to see the sun gods. I'm OK either way, though I think the idea that the sun gods are supernatural beings fits in better with the Biblical texts we are dealing with. Maybe it would be best to just assume they are supernatural for the sake of the conversation.
In terms of the North Star, I have some ideas, but for the moment I think it is important to distinguish between things that BB is concerned about because they are part of his religion and things that he actually can witness to. These two are obviously going to overlap. However, as you may have noticed, I'm mostly interested in the things that he has actually seen and experienced--i.e., his first hand testimony.
With the "North Star" he has given us nothing that indicates any first hand knowledge of what is supposed to be important about it. So, it may just be a hold-over from the Egyptian religion, which "located" heaven in the direction of the Pole Star. If he has anything else to make known about it he could make it known. This is like a lot of other things he doesn't let you see. It is strange that he "hides" things from you. Why should BB ="you" hide things from himself/yourself? Even given the distinction between BB as the spiritual self and you as the physical self it still doesn't explain why he doesn't let you know these things.
Cordially,
S&S
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John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi S&S Who determines who and what a god is and isn't?.. In most cases it began long ago with physical entities who claimed and it's continues on to be claimed by physical entities to have have some mystical connections to there mystical god who they believe is a real and true god.. IMO that is very flimsy evidence in fact no real proof at all that there god even exists.. It is these same people who make judgment's on what events in the physical are those of there god and those that aren't.. most of those that aren't they claim were instigated by evil.. by satin .. None of that makes any sense at all
So what physical proof can we look to that shows us which gods are real and true?...What physical proof have the real and true gods left behind we can look to and say... look at that... you can see before your eyes physical things that are so great that only gods could have have been involved ... and is physical proof that a god/gods are real and true gods.. Maybe the pyramids are physical proof of who the real and true gods really are
If there is no physical proof then everything is based on faith which is no proof at all
What I'm going to talk about happened after the rituals/ceremony between the 50 so of my tribes and the gods I will talk later what skills we had after they that .. they varied between groups of us and were passed on for generation after generation .. It was from these fifty or so of us more physical gods emerged .. and why when combined with the physical gods who came to us from the light of the second sun that millenniums later when the people turned some of the physical gods into mystical gods they were still portrayed as very physical with physical traits
and in many cases the stories of the gods .there families and conflicts between the gods were all based on real events between the physical gods in the physical by the real and only true gods
All of that and everything that happened I will never talk about ., BB would never allow it.. I'm not sure if it is sacred knowledge or not... I had to know to get BB to the reincarnation process's intact
All The Best
So what physical proof can we look to that shows us which gods are real and true?...What physical proof have the real and true gods left behind we can look to and say... look at that... you can see before your eyes physical things that are so great that only gods could have have been involved ... and is physical proof that a god/gods are real and true gods.. Maybe the pyramids are physical proof of who the real and true gods really are
If there is no physical proof then everything is based on faith which is no proof at all
What I'm going to talk about happened after the rituals/ceremony between the 50 so of my tribes and the gods I will talk later what skills we had after they that .. they varied between groups of us and were passed on for generation after generation .. It was from these fifty or so of us more physical gods emerged .. and why when combined with the physical gods who came to us from the light of the second sun that millenniums later when the people turned some of the physical gods into mystical gods they were still portrayed as very physical with physical traits
and in many cases the stories of the gods .there families and conflicts between the gods were all based on real events between the physical gods in the physical by the real and only true gods
All of that and everything that happened I will never talk about ., BB would never allow it.. I'm not sure if it is sacred knowledge or not... I had to know to get BB to the reincarnation process's intact
All The Best
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
You seem to be forgetting some things we have already talked about in the past.
First, in terms of “becoming physical”--the God I worship also became physical via incarnation as well as physically appearing at various times via materializations. So being able to appear in the physical is not a distinguishing factor. The same is true at various times for “angels” of God. Becoming physical may not even be a very important factor among the Elohim. Certainly, the gods of other pantheons (such as the Greco-Roman gods) were also reputed to manifest in the physical (often for the purpose of seduction). Nonetheless, it is interesting that the sun gods no longer appear to be able to do so—at least not on this planet.
Second, in terms of what the sun gods accomplished, I agree that ancient Egyptian civilization as well as the monuments it left are impressive. However, that civilization no longer exists, and its monuments are in ruins. From the standpoint of the worship of the Egyptian gods, it is virtually non-existent. If you look all around you, you will see who the “winners” are both religiously and culturally.
Third, you also seem to forget that I know you from before the time you became aware of the sun gods. The most characteristic feature you showed (and still show) is overwhelming hatred for the God of the Bible because you thought you would be protected in WWII and you weren’t. Whoever led you to believe that was leading you wrongly. And, quite frankly, you must have been very young and very naive to believe this. (I don’t dispute the fact that it is possible, but so far you have said nothing to indicate there was any special reason for you to receive such protection or to believe that you had it). However, I can’t see that the gods of Egypt did any better in protecting their devotees. Egypt was conquered in ancient history, then conquered in succession by the Greeks, the Romans, and finally (and permanently) by the Muslims. In all of those conquests I am sure that the soldiers and devotees of Egypt’s gods died at least as horribly as you did in WWII (though I’m not sure many of them were left by the time the Muslims got there). The latter wiped out the last traces of the old religion if there was any (at least as something that was actively practiced by the people of Egypt).
Fourth, as noted in some posts way back on this very long thread, monotheism has conquered the vast majority of the world. The sole hold-outs seem to be outlying primitive areas and Southeast Asia. In terms of “war in heaven”, it already happened according to the Bible, the rebels were expelled, and are now involved in a long and protracted “guerilla” war (for want of a better word) here on earth. (I’m just reporting what the Bible says about the matter).
Fifth, you may recall that we discussed the fact that the ancients saw their various wars against people with different deities as being basically wars between different groups of gods, with the more powerful pantheons/gods determined by who won. Of course, the losers might excuse a loss by the fact that they had somehow or another offended their gods who didn’t rise to defend them, but that was the “losers” argument. From this standpoint, if true, many wars would be considered to be “proxy” wars with the humans who fought, suffered and died being merely pawns of different groups of Elohim.
In addition to these points, I do have some observations. To begin with, the last point seems quite possible given the “complaint” against the Elohim set forth in Psalm 82. I.e., it seems that the various groups of Elohim not only did a poor job in terms of humane guidance of the peoples under their control, but seem to have been of a type who could have become involved in “turf” wars with each other seeking to win and expand the territory under their respective control.
So, what happens to a displaced pantheon? The gods of Egypt were basically dispossessed by the Greco-Roman pantheon long before the Christians or Muslims got there. What do dispossessed gods do with themselves? I suppose they might surrender and become servitors to a different group of Elohim. They might, as observed above, wage some kind of guerilla warfare on the ruling pantheon. Finally, and this makes me wonder about the importance of Polaris and some of the other things BB seems to indicate, they might flee to some place of refuge they had prepared for themselves elsewhere. Hmmm. Is it possible that the sun gods are “holed up” at some distant location, perhaps associated with the pole star? If so, it seems that they are determined to have you “open” the door that will allow them to return.
Cordially,
S&S
PS—There is obviously a lot of speculation and guesswork involved in what is written above, but after I run out of hard facts, and BB is very stingy in terms of what he will reveal, I have nothing else to go on. In any case, you will pick and choose what resonates with you.
You seem to be forgetting some things we have already talked about in the past.
First, in terms of “becoming physical”--the God I worship also became physical via incarnation as well as physically appearing at various times via materializations. So being able to appear in the physical is not a distinguishing factor. The same is true at various times for “angels” of God. Becoming physical may not even be a very important factor among the Elohim. Certainly, the gods of other pantheons (such as the Greco-Roman gods) were also reputed to manifest in the physical (often for the purpose of seduction). Nonetheless, it is interesting that the sun gods no longer appear to be able to do so—at least not on this planet.
Second, in terms of what the sun gods accomplished, I agree that ancient Egyptian civilization as well as the monuments it left are impressive. However, that civilization no longer exists, and its monuments are in ruins. From the standpoint of the worship of the Egyptian gods, it is virtually non-existent. If you look all around you, you will see who the “winners” are both religiously and culturally.
Third, you also seem to forget that I know you from before the time you became aware of the sun gods. The most characteristic feature you showed (and still show) is overwhelming hatred for the God of the Bible because you thought you would be protected in WWII and you weren’t. Whoever led you to believe that was leading you wrongly. And, quite frankly, you must have been very young and very naive to believe this. (I don’t dispute the fact that it is possible, but so far you have said nothing to indicate there was any special reason for you to receive such protection or to believe that you had it). However, I can’t see that the gods of Egypt did any better in protecting their devotees. Egypt was conquered in ancient history, then conquered in succession by the Greeks, the Romans, and finally (and permanently) by the Muslims. In all of those conquests I am sure that the soldiers and devotees of Egypt’s gods died at least as horribly as you did in WWII (though I’m not sure many of them were left by the time the Muslims got there). The latter wiped out the last traces of the old religion if there was any (at least as something that was actively practiced by the people of Egypt).
Fourth, as noted in some posts way back on this very long thread, monotheism has conquered the vast majority of the world. The sole hold-outs seem to be outlying primitive areas and Southeast Asia. In terms of “war in heaven”, it already happened according to the Bible, the rebels were expelled, and are now involved in a long and protracted “guerilla” war (for want of a better word) here on earth. (I’m just reporting what the Bible says about the matter).
Fifth, you may recall that we discussed the fact that the ancients saw their various wars against people with different deities as being basically wars between different groups of gods, with the more powerful pantheons/gods determined by who won. Of course, the losers might excuse a loss by the fact that they had somehow or another offended their gods who didn’t rise to defend them, but that was the “losers” argument. From this standpoint, if true, many wars would be considered to be “proxy” wars with the humans who fought, suffered and died being merely pawns of different groups of Elohim.
In addition to these points, I do have some observations. To begin with, the last point seems quite possible given the “complaint” against the Elohim set forth in Psalm 82. I.e., it seems that the various groups of Elohim not only did a poor job in terms of humane guidance of the peoples under their control, but seem to have been of a type who could have become involved in “turf” wars with each other seeking to win and expand the territory under their respective control.
So, what happens to a displaced pantheon? The gods of Egypt were basically dispossessed by the Greco-Roman pantheon long before the Christians or Muslims got there. What do dispossessed gods do with themselves? I suppose they might surrender and become servitors to a different group of Elohim. They might, as observed above, wage some kind of guerilla warfare on the ruling pantheon. Finally, and this makes me wonder about the importance of Polaris and some of the other things BB seems to indicate, they might flee to some place of refuge they had prepared for themselves elsewhere. Hmmm. Is it possible that the sun gods are “holed up” at some distant location, perhaps associated with the pole star? If so, it seems that they are determined to have you “open” the door that will allow them to return.
Cordially,
S&S
PS—There is obviously a lot of speculation and guesswork involved in what is written above, but after I run out of hard facts, and BB is very stingy in terms of what he will reveal, I have nothing else to go on. In any case, you will pick and choose what resonates with you.
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John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi S&S Once again very interesting stuff As you say a lot was speculation and guesswork but none the less it was logical I will talk in later posts about more physical proof that my gods are real
IMO physical proof you can see in the physical is very important .. there is still plenty of physical proof my gods left behind.. What is time to the gods.. does time even exist for the gods? It may seem a long time ago to us my gods ruled ..the question is ..... does that have the same relevance to all of the gods? I doubt it I doubt physical time has any relevance to them at all.. physical time and what happened during that physical time is not a factor in any of this ...
I will have a choice of two lights.. A steady bright light and a pulsing bright light ..Before the physical John Tat dies and BB is still within my physical body I must deliver BB to the pulsing light intact The physical John Tat will die going through the pulsing light releasing BB into the pulsing light and John Tat will never to return
I have been told BB at the point we have won .. they will not be able to stop us and we will return stronger than ever... IMO we have already won because nothing is or will stop me from my obligations to my gods
All The Best
IMO physical proof you can see in the physical is very important .. there is still plenty of physical proof my gods left behind.. What is time to the gods.. does time even exist for the gods? It may seem a long time ago to us my gods ruled ..the question is ..... does that have the same relevance to all of the gods? I doubt it I doubt physical time has any relevance to them at all.. physical time and what happened during that physical time is not a factor in any of this ...
I will have a choice of two lights.. A steady bright light and a pulsing bright light ..Before the physical John Tat dies and BB is still within my physical body I must deliver BB to the pulsing light intact The physical John Tat will die going through the pulsing light releasing BB into the pulsing light and John Tat will never to return
I have been told BB at the point we have won .. they will not be able to stop us and we will return stronger than ever... IMO we have already won because nothing is or will stop me from my obligations to my gods
All The Best
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
Curiosity questions:
Will this "gateway" established by you/BB for return to physical bodies on earth only be open to those allowed by the Egyptian pantheon?
If not, will it also be open to members of the other pantheons, such as the Greco-Roman "gods"?
If it is just for the Egyptian pantheon, how will other "gods" be prevented from using it?
Cordially,
S&S
PS--In terms of physical proof, I'm OK with that, but never really needed it. I really had very little doubt about the reality of the ones you refer to as "sun gods" from the first time you described them. I just struggled to understand what they were, what they were here to do and did when they came, and what they plan to do in the future. I think I know what they are now (to the extent human intelligence can understand such things). I also think I have a pretty good idea of what they did when they came (despite all of the gaps in what BB is willing to reveal), as the civilization of ancient Egypt bears witness to their accomplishments. Likewise, I have a pretty good idea what they intend to do if they succeed through you in making some kind of return (once again, subject to the gaps in the information provided). In sum, they came to accomplish and accomplished wonderful things in and among the people they came to. How and why they left is only a matter of speculation. This is probably the biggest area of mystery about them for me at this point, though I have voiced my suspicions above. What they will do when they return is only revealed in the vaguest of terms, though it appears obvious that they come to conquer. I don't think I will be around to see their attempt, but time will tell.
PPS--The thing that I find most bothersome is actually your attitude to the end of "John Tat". I'm sorry to see you go even if you are not. Obviously, we all come back different than we were when we left, but you seem to anticipate nothingness for yourself. This is sad.
PPPS--Strangely enough, I have been greatly missing Ken over the last few exchanges we have had. I would have appreciated his input and distinctive "voice" and thought on these matters. I hope you're doing well old chum, wherever you are!
Curiosity questions:
Will this "gateway" established by you/BB for return to physical bodies on earth only be open to those allowed by the Egyptian pantheon?
If not, will it also be open to members of the other pantheons, such as the Greco-Roman "gods"?
If it is just for the Egyptian pantheon, how will other "gods" be prevented from using it?
Cordially,
S&S
PS--In terms of physical proof, I'm OK with that, but never really needed it. I really had very little doubt about the reality of the ones you refer to as "sun gods" from the first time you described them. I just struggled to understand what they were, what they were here to do and did when they came, and what they plan to do in the future. I think I know what they are now (to the extent human intelligence can understand such things). I also think I have a pretty good idea of what they did when they came (despite all of the gaps in what BB is willing to reveal), as the civilization of ancient Egypt bears witness to their accomplishments. Likewise, I have a pretty good idea what they intend to do if they succeed through you in making some kind of return (once again, subject to the gaps in the information provided). In sum, they came to accomplish and accomplished wonderful things in and among the people they came to. How and why they left is only a matter of speculation. This is probably the biggest area of mystery about them for me at this point, though I have voiced my suspicions above. What they will do when they return is only revealed in the vaguest of terms, though it appears obvious that they come to conquer. I don't think I will be around to see their attempt, but time will tell.
PPS--The thing that I find most bothersome is actually your attitude to the end of "John Tat". I'm sorry to see you go even if you are not. Obviously, we all come back different than we were when we left, but you seem to anticipate nothingness for yourself. This is sad.
PPPS--Strangely enough, I have been greatly missing Ken over the last few exchanges we have had. I would have appreciated his input and distinctive "voice" and thought on these matters. I hope you're doing well old chum, wherever you are!
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John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi S&S I to miss Ken and his input... There are no other pantheons of gods ... so that is not a problem ... As I have said BB abandoned Ancient Egypt because the people lost they way with the gods. They amongst many other things invented many false gods ...The gods did the same for the same reasons... the people became unworthy of the gods and no longer followed the series of events put to them by the gods that always had an outcome.. that amongst many things secured there future both militarily and with advanced technology.. that's how it happened and should have continued on that way I will talk all about the in future posts .. about how it happened at a rate of evolution way way beyond normal and would have continued if the gods had not abandoned them . The invaders did the world a terrible dis service when they destroyed our recorded knowledge although the most important of all knowledge "sacred knowledge" was never recorded only handed down by word of mouth.. The invaders in there attempts to eliminate everything about Ancient Egypt was the most catastrophic event in the history of the world... by far
The article on the North Star was interesting... I wonder if that may give my gods some sort of control because as I said the North Star in all of its forms are very important to my gods
All The Best
The article on the North Star was interesting... I wonder if that may give my gods some sort of control because as I said the North Star in all of its forms are very important to my gods
All The Best
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