Observations on reincarnation

[Obie]

I dont know if this is the right section to put this under....

But from my experiences I feel that the reincarnation process is kind of like high school.

Some students take challenging courses like physics high level mathematics etc. others take just the bare mimimum to get by. Some students take fun classes like painting, photo, sculpture, etc. Some of us choose lives with difficult lessons to learn others of us take easy fun lives.

With reincarnation you have spirit guide. In high school we had guidance counselors who worked with us in terms of what classes you wanted to take. Spirit guides work with us in terms of what lessons we want to learn.

 

[usetawuz]

I like your analysis Obie...it works for me.

 

[Lady2]

Yes! We all have choice in countless different ways to learn & grow.

 

[usetawuz]

Further observations on reincarnation...for me, it has begun to take on the effect of a given. I no longer get a feeling of surprise when I find another synchronistic event pointing to a past life, but rather I have a sense of excitement and expectation for what may be around the corner and what that particular piece of information is intended to show or tell me.


I feel the reality of it all has brought me to a point where my efforts are not to be focused on those lives past, but how those portions of previous lives which penetrate the fog of my current consciousness can assist me in what I am doing now. As has been discussed here at length, this current incarnation, for each of us, is not the end product, the goal or final resolution of our purpose here, but rather a verifiable point on the tapestry depicting our soul's eternal experience dating from time immemorial and to infinity. We are clearly the sum total of our previous iterations, but that total is a moving target...a work in progress.


I love those lives I've led...to name a few, the self-confidence of being acknowledged as an extremely brilliant man; the clarity and satisfaction of being the master of an artistic and useful craft as a blacksmith; the homey and comforting sense of being the baker in a medieval town; the ability to make a lifetime's work of fishing in a small village on a one-manned fishing boat; each one provides a benefit to others and a sense of accomplishment and purpose...and to know they each included deep and wonderful relationships with other souls, gives me such a complete happiness with the entire incomprehensible whole that I just have to sit back and take it all in.

 

[Owl]

I was hesitant about posting my own observations on reincarnation or not, but why not? Maybe I'm just meant to be one of the black sheep of the reincarnation world online and a lot of things I say tend to unwillingly be polemic (I'm not necessarily talking about this forum, just in general). However, over the years I've learnt some things that developed my philosophy and way of thinking. As a warning I'll say that I might speak as if the following were ultimate truths but they are just my point of view, nobody should take it as an offense. I'm not asking people to agree with me because I know nobody does (or at least most don't), but I just felt like posting this and who knows, it could be useful for someone.


So my reincarnation philosophy consists in:


Reincarnation is just a natural process, subject to natural physical and chemical laws: I used to believe, like the OP, that we reincarnated to learn, that our ultimate goal was to learn more and more and become one with the universe. That peaceful spiritual people "who knew how to love everyone "like Tibetan monks were closer to the goal and in their last incarnations.


I can't believe that anymore now, I'm not sure what changed but I just can't conceive a "humanized astral" where we discuss what we need to learn and what not and we make so many choices. As I said in some other thread, I think we're mistaking cause and consequence, we don't reincarnate to learn, we learn because we reincarnate. I don't think nature has a purpose, our body grows because of the chemical interactions, not to be able to drive a car, for example. To believe that nature has a purpose is to believe in a conscious god, and I can't do that either.


So my first point is "Reincarnation just happens", the same way that the sun rises every morning, it's just that people prefer to think it happens for a reason because they need to give it a meaning, it's a mental mechanism.


People don't change, and all issues have to be solved eventually: You don't change, what can change is your perception of yourself maayyybee. If you remember being a Spanish conquistador who killed natives you will probably say to yourself "I changed, I'm a good person now". Yeah sure, the core of who you are is the same, if we scratch the surface you might even have the same mindset. Does that mean you will go around killing people? No, because circumstances around you changed. Does that mean you are evil? That's for another section. The thing is, the environment is not as important as many people think, it can create some psychological traumas, yes, but in the end you will just be who you are. If you thought a certain way you will keep thinking the exact same way, and not necessarily in content (which you probably might) but in form, you will like the same things, act the same way and ultimately probably do the same things (with minor variations), because people just follow patterns, and nobody likes to break them. And the best of it all, is that there is NO.WAY.OUT. You can be on denial all you want, try to change, try to be different, to live in the now and disregard the past. You can say "This person wasn't me, I just happen to have their memories". No baby, believe it if you want, but the more you try to distance to your past selves the more you are like them, you can't escape from who you are, so just go with your feelings and don't fight against it.


The same way you don't change, your problems don't change either (except they are political problems maybe) and nothing will be solved by death. So you have to find the best way to deal with them. Also, if you have issues regarding past lives and reincarnation, they will never go away, no matter how much you try to put the monster in the closet, with years It'll only grow bigger and bigger and it will break the wood and come to eat you. So work on your Pl issues, no matter how much they scare you.


Also, they same way you don't change and your problems don't change, guess what? other people don't change as well and neither their relationship with you. If you have problems with somebody and you don't solve them, there are high chances that you'll keep meeting that person throughout your lives and you will have the same problems! So in theory, problems with other people have to be solved. In practice, I wonder how!


There is no punishment and there is no good and evil, therefore, there's no karma: I haven't realized this last part until recently. Karma is the name people give to their experiences when they experience both sides of the coin, when that happens, they call it karma. For the people who that doesn't happen, karma doesn't exist. So it´ s just a name we give to experiences in case we have them. For example, psychology will say "kids aged 9 to 13 like to explore" (I didn't make it up, it's in a psychology for Scouters guide book), but it's totally subjetive, it's not set in stone, and neither is "karma". But why would it anyways? If we believe that we experience both sides of the coin to learn then we have to agree that we reincarnate to learn, not that we learn because we reincarnate. And if we consider Karma as punishment then we have to believe in some sort of astral punishment, and to be punished we have to do things wrong, and if we can do things wrong we can do things good, so good and evil would exist outside societies. To believe in good and evil outside societies we would either have to believe in a conscious superpowerful god dictating what's good and what's evil, or we'll have to believe that good and evil are universal concepts. Since what's good and what's bad vary with societies and have a lot of exceptions, the latter cannot be done.


So no matter what you do on Earth, you won't be punished in the astral because of it. The only one who can punish you is yourself, if you feel guilt you might experience the other side of the coin maybe and then you'll call it karma, but you are pretty much just doing it yourself because you want to or you can't help yourself.No outside source is making it happen and if you don't feel guilty it won't happen either. Divine justice doesn't exist.


I am realizing just now though, after I wrote all this for the last hour, that my way of thinking might just be a form of Existentialism, which wouldn't be strange since I was fond of that philosophy in my teens and apparently too in past lives ...


It would be in concordance with existentialism as far as I know that: life + reincarnation has no meaning, we give it the meaning we want - there is no sort of punishment - By the high possibility that point number 2 is also representative of existentialist ideas and do nothing else but reaffirm itself I will just finish this post.


I'm not sure if anyone got something out of it but I just got another (bit depressing) example on how no matter what we do, no matter how many times we die, we keep thinking in the exact EXACT way.

 

[usetawuz]

Owl, I appreciate your candor; I appreciate your qualifications of the theory and its application to you, though I respectfully submit it doesn't fit my own experiences. Your characterization of a background in existentialism is evident.


In my case, I was raised by parents and grandparents who valued self-control; public displays of affection were anathema and outbursts of emotion were unheard of. There was no lack of feelings of love, just no outward show of it. I grew up feeling appreciated and capable and in control.


Once when I was being picked up from pre-school, another boy's mother got down on her knees and wrapped him in her arms, hugged and kissed him and coo'ed and awwed and truly smothered him with love. As I watched, my mother took my hand and led me to the car and said critically "Some people just cannot control themselves." While I felt she was right, I still yearned to be that little boy, if only for a second.


That was the environment in which I grew up. Not quite stoic, but certainly controlled and restrained, like my parents and grandparents and as far back as I can imagine. Value, as misguided as it may have been, was found in self-control and cool competence.


Fast forward to my life now...up until recently, I believed my feelings of amazement and wonder regarding my children was different because I was an older father when they were born, first 33 and then 39. Upon their births, first my daughter, then my son, I changed dramatically. I could not contain my feelings when I was around them. My children were the ones who were almost embarrassed by my shows of affection when I picked them up from school. I did not follow my early training or my parent's lead in limiting my personal displays of affection for my children...I changed the dynamic and the environment in which they grew and are growing up. They are growing up with unconditional love, without shame or guilt, and know with me they will always obtain guidance and practical direction, all filled with a sense of being valued for themselves. I don't let them forget what they should do and how to do it in the best way possible, but it is all couched in the knowledge of my clear and obvious support and love regardless of their actions.


Recently, I had one of the most effective and enlightening akashic reading sessions in recent memory. I felt a clarity I hadn't known in months and the first communication I got was a large group of hugely excited beings there to tell me to be proud of my accomplishment...not really proud, but greatly satisfied and happy about what I had done. As the whirl of impressions and intense sense of happiness abated and slowed down, I was shown that vignette of the child in pre-school being hugged by his mother and I was told I chose to raise my children this way, and I did this all on my own. Despite the benefits inherent in such actions, no one else could have made me make this fundamental change in my life and that of my children; that I changed the dynamic in such a way as to make it look like a quantum leap from the "other side"...for me and the other souls with whom I incarnate. (This brings up another aspect of opportunities and learning in each lifetime).


Further explanation came in both a lucid dream and later in meditation; I was raised in the same manner as all my male family ancestors, with a maintenance of control and as a fountain of direct authority meted out with cool, unruffled directness...without the training or experience to develop a more accurate, more in tune, more loving father figure. Somehow I was able, with that single vision of the mother and son from preschool, to make the changes necessary to ensure my children were provided the training and experience to enable them to comfortably show outward evidence of love and compassion and will never give their children that cold, stoic, controlling sense of family in which I grew up. This alteration in my lifeplan was a low probability; while events were set up and the course I took would certainly have allowed such change in direction, it was considered a long-shot at best, considering my controlled and directed personality and the lock-step progressions I had taken to date. (from a practical standpoint, my soul group is very highly attuned toward mental capacities and we all work toward increasing our emotional capacities while on earth).


From my standpoint, this is an example of souls growing, learning and changing their beliefs, their actions and growing beyond their previous knowledge and capabilities.

 

[Owl]

From my standpoint, this is an example of souls growing, learning and changing their beliefs, their actions and growing beyond their previous knowledge and capabilities.

I liked your story, however, what you changed in this case, from my point of view, is the way you were raised in this life, your family environment in this life. I don't know in your particular case how you were raised in your past lives, but if you were an affectionate father back then, it's logical that you would have taken that turn in this life as well, no matter how you were raised. I think it was Aristotle that said that we evolved to our true selves, as time goes by we become more and more how we really are.


We could also wonder actually if that pre-school memory caused such a big impact on you because it reminded you of something from the past. How you were treated or your own relationship with your kids in the past.

 

[BriarRose]

Respectfully, Ustawuz, Owl makes some valid points in his "rebuttal". It sums up what I thought while reading your post. It seems in reincarnation, the birth family is of little consequence in shaping who we are, in the sense of our soul's basic nature. However, I can't discount your experience in the Akashic Records. You seem to be a senior in the earth school, while I'm still in junior high.


Owl, while I understand your point of view, I find it somewhat dispiriting. Your post sounds like me on a very bad day, when I have no faith, no hope, and feel like God is detached from my struggles completely. I think this happens to most people, occasionally. I don't think I'm strong enough to endure living in that spiritual state all the time. It sounds like a constant existential state of despair. While I understand the historical perspective in which existentialism developed, it seems a stark and difficult philosophy with which to live one's life. However, I think the forum needs contrasting points of view, and your opinions cause me to think, and reevaluate my beliefs. Have you read any of the near death experience literature? Most current reincarnation theory seems to be based on that.

 

[Owl]

Owl, while I understand your point of view, I find it somewhat dispiriting. Your post sounds like me on a very bad day, when I have no faith, no hope, and feel like God is detached from my struggles completely. I think this happens to most people, occasionally. I don't think I'm strong enough to endure living in that spiritual state all the time. It sounds like a constant existential state of despair. While I understand the historical perspective in which existentialism developed, it seems a stark and difficult philosophy with which to live one's life. However, I think the forum needs contrasting points of view, and your opinions cause me to think, and reevaluate my beliefs. Have you read any of the near death experience literature? Most current reincarnation theory seems to be based on that.

Ha yes, I'm conscious that it sounds depressing. I was going to write actually yesterday, at the end of my post, something like "If this philosophy is so pessimistic (in a way) why do I keep being interested in reincarnation and such?" I would say it's a combination of lust for knowledge, pleasure provoked by memories and synchronicities, and nostalgia .


No, I actually didn't read any kind of Near death experience literature, the only books about reincarnation that I've read were "Many lives, many masters" (I tried to read the rest of Brian Weiss but I just can't adhere to what he started to do later), and Jim Tucker's book of 2005,I don't remember the name. I'm actually a bit avoidant of reading about near death experiences, first because I'm not even remotely interested in the astral or what happens spiritually when we die (although I am interested in what happens physically and how the body/soul connection is broken) and I have the preconception that books or forum about near death experiences will just deal with those topics. Second, because I'm pretty much only interested in getting memories, I want to know the mechanisms of how the soul works only to get more memories, as some sort of hedonistic pleasure, as bad as it sounds.

 

[BriarRose]

I don't think studying PL experience is bad for any reason, even "hedonistic" pleasure. I respect your "lust" for knowledge. I share it myself. But why limit yourself to studying only certain aspects of Pl, or astral, experience? I think I understand the lack of interest, but I don't think you can come to a good understanding of the subject, if you limit yourself to certain aspects. If, as time goes on, you decide to explore, I would recommend 'Saved By The Light', by Dannion Brinkley. I recommend this book because he was a soldier in Viet Nam, who participated in many actions that many would consider "immoral". He also worked with Dr. Raymond Moody, who is, as you probably know, the "father" of NDE research. By the way, I visited the site you list in your signature. Very interesting. I do have at least one war-related PL of my own, so I might have to join to view all the posts.

 

[usetawuz]

I appreciate your comments Owl and BriarRose, and my meaning and points were unclear. I provided the human view without the corresponding "soul level" view. My greater soul group, which happens to populate the majority of my human family and close associates, have difficulty expressing human emotion and this was a sort of breakthrough which may alter the direction our group of souls take while incarnate; my example hopefully provides a "blueprint" allowing later soul mates incarnate to express emotion in a more effective manner, especially if they have been the direct beneficiaries of my new-found expression.


I agree our human families are the vessels of our physical creation and while providing our initial environment and worldview as humans, from that point our souls function as they will...we are the Aristotlean "who we are". I was countering the idea that "who we are" is fixed and immutable...I disagree, and while we are perfect souls, we do not necessarily become perfect humans, and from that posit, my missive was intended to show there is learning and growth inherent in the process.

 

[BriarRose]

and while we are perfect souls, we do not necessarily become perfect humans, and from that posit, my missive was intended to show there is learning and growth inherent in the process.

I agree. If I didn't believe that there is hope for improvement, I think, to paraphrase the Borg Collective, existence would be futile.

 

[Eowyn]

Ha yes, I'm conscious that it sounds depressing. I was going to write actually yesterday, at the end of my post, something like "If this philosophy is so pessimistic (in a way) why do I keep being interested in reincarnation and such?" I would say it's a combination of lust for knowledge, pleasure provoked by memories and synchronicities, and nostalgia .
No, I actually didn't read any kind of Near death experience literature, the only books about reincarnation that I've read were "Many lives, many masters" (I tried to read the rest of Brian Weiss but I just can't adhere to what he started to do later), and Jim Tucker's book of 2005,I don't remember the name. I'm actually a bit avoidant of reading about near death experiences, first because I'm not even remotely interested in the astral or what happens spiritually when we die (although I am interested in what happens physically and how the body/soul connection is broken) and I have the preconception that books or forum about near death experiences will just deal with those topics. Second, because I'm pretty much only interested in getting memories, I want to know the mechanisms of how the soul works only to get more memories, as some sort of hedonistic pleasure, as bad as it sounds.

With all due respects, Owl, I have to agree with BriarRose here. If you really lust for knowledge you can't focus only in reincarnation, because then you're missing a great part of the whole picture. If you want to know what happens physically when we die, you should pay attention to all the NDE's accounts available, then you'll see how we're not really a body, but a soul that leaves the body as soon as this latter doesn't work. The same way, if you want to learn how the soul/body connection is broken, then you should read about OBE's, how these experiences are a part of the death process in itself, and also how, despite "orthodox science" says, consciousness is not in the brain and how we ALL can learn how to dissociate from our bodies to enter another plane, dimension or whatever you want to call it.


I understand you may not agree with Brian Weiss' work, but I think that what is important here is the message, not the messenger, and I value people's experiences above any other thing. When you study all these kind of experiences together (NDE's, OBE's, regressions to the moment of death, or life between lives as Michael Newton's books describe), you realize how all these experiences are universal and basically they all coincide.


I know nothing about existencialism, and though I agree with a lot of your views, I think I sense a certain "rejection" against spiritualism, meaning that you're not up to believe in what a lot of people tell just because you think it's only an illusion and you prefer actual proofs to support your belief in reincarnation. But I think this attitude is preventing you from seeking your truth in other sources that could be very useful for you, and leading you to misconceptions about certain "realities" that have been with us human beings since the beginning but that modern science keeps denying, creating a lot of confusion and blindness when there is really nothing unnatural going on.


You should be interested in what happens spiritually when we die, because we all are spirits, not just physical bodies. And if we listen to the people who has been in "the astral" as you call it (though I sense you're mistaking different planes of existence or consciousness), and have come back, we'll undoubtedly learn a lot more about human nature than analyzing our brains in a magnetic resonance.


I think it doesn't matter if we learn because we reincarnate or if we reincarnate to learn. The fact is that we reincarnate and we learn (though we also have fun and make all the choices we want). I don't think we're the same through all our incarnations, we all change because experience and knowledge change you. I was much more innocent at the beginning of my studies that I was at the end. I started as a meat eater, and I ended up as a vegetarian. If I have a bad experience, I'll probably change my choices if I encounter the same experience in another life. So, even when our soul remains the same because each and every one of us is unique and unrepeatable, we undoubtedly grow and better ourselves through our lifetimes, and that's a natural process just as reincarnation is, though everyone can choose their own path and their own pace to do so.


In regards to good and evil, well, of course this is only my belief, but after years of scientific study I "know" there's an intelligence behind everything we see, we're not the product of random events because that's just impossible, and there's only a law in the whole universe: Love. I completely agree with you there, there's no divine justice, because when we are in the spiritual realm we are completely aware we are the seeds of Love (sparks born from a "Source"), and we know that evil deeds take us away from Him, and good deeds take us closer to Him and thus closer to happiness. That's why deep inside we all know what is wrong and what is bad, and why we sometimes make mistakes, but thanks to that Eternal Love we're always forgiven and we can live again to try and do it better this time.

 

[Whippoorwill]

Owl, I was happy to read your post because I struggle to balance my belief in reincarnation with my distrust of organised religion and my own personal agnosticism. I'd like to believe there's a plan... but I lack the faith for everything to sit quite right with me. Clearly I am a habitual agnostic!


To be honest, I'm not far enough along my own journey to figure out quite what I believe at this point! I'm very interested to read everyone else's views, however.


I do agree with Eowyn. I think we do change and learn and grow, if we are willing to. I'm not the person I was when I was thirteen, let alone the person I was in 1000AD. But perhaps that's what you meant by working on our PL issues? If we can understand our problems and see our flaws then we can (hopefully) move on from them.