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How to stop coming back?

Hi Ken,

I agree in general, however, I do believe there are ways to speed up the process. I.e., by bringing in and accentuating all those things that are "of God" by seeking to be infused with the Spirit, Light, Love, and Wisdom of God in every way so as to speed the transformation of our nature. Meditation, prayer, the cultivation of the virtues, selflessness, goodness, etc. etc.--all of these are part of the way that the process is accelerated. I could go on, but I'll leave that to others.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Why wouldn't we want to "graduate" sooner rather than later? :cool:
 
This is one of those questions that needs to be looked at through the reality of what is going on... Does the physical control the spiritual or does the spiritual control the physical?... In the overall of what is going on it is not a partnership.... All of the physical entities die and never return... the spiritual/soul never dies it goes on and on.... so it is in no ways a partnership with any of the physical entities the spiritual occupies .... If you believe the physical controls the spiritual and therefore can control if the spiritual will return or not .. then that's up to you .... but in reality it makes no sense
 
SeaAndSky said:
Why wouldn't we want to "graduate" sooner rather than later?
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It seems to be a human desire to forge forward, to "advance" in some way, as if that is the thing of value. I sometimes have to stop and remember that it is not a race, it is that the "journey" is possibly more important than the destination, if you follow my thinking. Earth is a really nice "playground" and there are some good experiences here that don't exist on the other side, physical things that we experience through our bodes. Why not continue these activities? I'd like to have had the life I had a half-centry ago to have gone on for a few more decades.
 
Hi Ken,

I don't deny the good parts of being here, but that often seems to just be sugar to help the medicine go down. The medicine in this case, from all I can tell by reading people's accounts (and especially Newton), are harder and harder tasks that involve more and more suffering (as well as diligence, patience and love).

Being averse to misery and suffering (shallow creature that I am), I would prefer to take the (comparatively) easier route of dedicating myself to spiritual growth as much as I can to shorten the process (though even here I'm no monk).

Does that mean that I don't like the physical? Not at all, but there is a big difference between being employed at the asylum/prison and being an inmate there. I know that puts an ugly spin on the matter, but the truth is that I'd like to be free to move between the different planes of existence rather than confined to a certain course of study and locale. Some of it can't be avoided in the course of learning and progressing spiritually, but if there is anything I can avoid, I'd like to do so.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Inhaltos, that's the best I can suggest: follow the path of the saints as best you can, and hope to shorten the time.
 
I wouldn't stop however I would jump at the opportunity to choose other hopefully better worlds, it has come up in some regressions that God/source does have intentions of pulling the plug on this particular world as our actions are having negative affects on the rest of creation. From what little has trickled out from the other side the plan is to send the souls to other worlds though some very closely resemble this one people will have a choice due to the gift of free will.
 
S&S, I don't disagree with you, I just wanted to present another face of the coin for conversations sake. Glad to see that you are still able to be on-line while the hurricane is beating about in your area - stay safe my friend!
 
SeaAndSky said:
Hi Ken,

I agree in general, however, I do believe there are ways to speed up the process. I.e., by bringing in and accentuating all those things that are "of God" by seeking to be infused with the Spirit, Light, Love, and Wisdom of God in every way so as to speed the transformation of our nature. Meditation, prayer, the cultivation of the virtues, selflessness, goodness, etc. etc.--all of these are part of the way that the process is accelerated. I could go on, but I'll leave that to others.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Why wouldn't we want to "graduate" sooner rather than later? :cool:
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Very interesting thought on virtue.

Today my teacher says,

One virtue is more powerful than a thousand vices.
~Bowl of Saki, September 7, by Hazrat Inayat Khan

Which begs the question... What is virtue?

I am a believer in the science of Kriya Yoga and many of the things you say aren't far off from this immortal consciousness.

Kindest regards
 
HIS teacher says, there is only one sin and one virtue for a soul on the path...

Virtue when he is conscious of God and sin when he is not.
 
Ken J,
Thank you for your kind reply. It is important to stop and smell the flowers, to embrace the totality of our journey with compassion and enjoy this show we are observing in this time.

John Tat and There and back again,
So it would seem that reincarnation is not limited to planet Earth. Since the soul, as made in the image of God, is Immortal then perhaps we "reincarnate" elsewhere. I've had dreams [edit] of a memory that feels more like a, "future life" than a past life.

Kind regards.
 
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Hello cloud potato!
The Buddhist and Hindu religions are also very interested in this question if I am correct. And, I suppose I think that you could step out of reincarnation, but I believe we have all chosen to live here. We have chosen to be limited by physical laws, separation, suffering, and death. Some say they know why, but I suppose any answer is as good as the other.
I think we could ask, "can we escape the cycle?" But really in my opinion, the cycle is the point- we will know when we are done, but for now, it is more valuable to embrace our choice and purpose. We have to learn to embrace life, with all the bad things and with all the good things, because that is what we are here for right now.
Though, that is just my modest opinion.
Also, thank you for posting.
 
Hi, lately I have been thinking that as long as there is something to learn or someone to help a part of the soul, the spirit, will chose to reincarnate. I have begun to see my soul as a big round cake (I love cakes :p) and my spirit as just a small piece of the cake living my life right now, but the main part of the cake, my core, is safe and "up there" all the time. I think that we will most likely forget about the bad things. Like before I could run and walk - I have forgotten how I struggled to get to that point. Or when I learned to bicycle, same thing there. When one has reached the goal I don't think one is suffering, thinking about all the times one fell off the bicycle or was afraid to hurt one self or all the ants I ran over. But I have to say when exploring my past lives I must have been drunk in "heaven" the way I designed my past lives, ha ha, the other spirits must have been happy :D to have gotten rid of me, at least for a while :rolleyes:

Best Wishes

Li La
 
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cloud potato said:
I'm curious, if you believe in reincarnation- do you believe you can stop reincarnating?
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That’s a good question and tbh, I’m not sure what I believe on that. I lean towards it just happening automatically, so I suppose I also lean towards us constantly reincarnating, without any say.
 
It's funny, now that I think consciously about it: Even though Michael Newton's books lit up both mind and heart in a way no other references ever have, I'm still wrestling a little with the idea of reincarnation. I get the concept-- it seems to me like it's similar to an actor's series of roles in TV and movies-- but I guess I'm pretty solidly anchored in this current form, lol!
 
What a strange discussion. What anyone of us believes or not is of no importance to what there really is.

In Michael Newton's books somewhere this question is already answered (pity, don't remember the exact location):

YES, a soul can stop reincarnating, in which case it is stuck forever between lives.
 
MOOnstOne, even though I've experienced Tons of paranormal and Memories, I sometimes wonder where the line between imagination and actual memories lies. I think it is normal to second-guess yourself. No idea who decides when I've learned enough to stop reincarnating and/or stop the tasks that I think our souls do on The Other Sides.
 
Thinking on the question, "how to stop coming back?" I meant back to this planet, Earth. Antigone, thank you for your reply- I agree with you and Li-La(very funny response friend :)). Based off what I read from you and am beginning to better understand, this particular dynamic(life on Earth) is one of separation(duality), suffering(ignorance) and death(growth/transition). I placed growth in the same category as death because it would seem death is not the end but a transition and Life(growth) continues on. I believe the answer is that it is possible to stop coming back to Earth after soul longings(desire) and understandings are fulfilled. That might mean lifetimes of incarnating here to assimilate the offerings Nature provides. This "school house" really is a blessing, I can see the affinity for reincarnating to Earth and why some might enjoy being actors(Moonstone :D). Perhaps God as an immortal omnipotent enjoys experiencing itself by varying degrees of vibration- but what then would that make us? I've also had this thought, based around idea's of Progress, just as we are gifted these bodies we might too be gifted an entire Universe.

With love,
~CP
 
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From what we can observe from cases with between-life memories, it seems that the act of coming back is more effortful than that of not coming back; Eastern and Western cases tend to talk about this in much different terms, but what they both indicate in common is that reincarnation involves an active choice on the part of the deceased. Therefore, to not come back, all you'd have to do is never decide to come back. Of course, however, the majority of cases (~80%) have no such in-between memories of choosing to come back, yet they're back anyways. So while the reports of those who do have them are highly consistent in stating it voluntary, it may be involuntary for some or all of those who don't, simply taking place as a natural process that may involve no intermediate stop in an afterlife at all. In which case I have no idea how you'd make it stop.
 
So, for 80% of us it's like a car assembly line: an immediate re-incarnation while the previous body may still be warm. No light in the tunnel. An infinite and uninterrupted chain of re-incarnations following some unknown pre-fabricated scenario.

All because 80% don't remember those in-between lives stops.
 
Note that I said "may" multiple times in that sentence, I was clearly speculating, and theory-crafting is why we're all here, so it shouldn't be stigmatized. And whatever happens, it's definitely not immediate; death-rebirth interval durations don't significantly differ between people who have intermediate memories and those who don't, as far as I know. It might, but I don't think this correlation has ever been looked into. Either way, those 80% who have no knowledge of the in-between process definitely don't reincarnate immediately, or close. Given that, and since they obviously don't just stop existing, my guess would be that those instances do go to the same afterlife as the others and just don't remember it for whatever reason, but we can't 100% take that for granted. A point that I think is missed here sometimes is that what is specifically remembered by the subjects really is the only data, so researchers almost have to take it as authoritative and the patterns that emerge from it as law, and can only interpolate and extrapolate in the most dead obvious of scenarios. We just don't know enough to assume anything yet, so much still remains to be investigated.
 
Any PL or BL memory is due to some defect in the soul-body coupling, a defect affected and corrected by many years of evolution, but it's still there. In an ideal case, the amnesia must be complete. Big leaks in the course of the evolution surely led to a kind of madness and premature death of the affected individuals.

I was just wondering how can anything serious be concluded from an analysis of something so casual as the debris of those memories.
It's like trying to extract something meaningful from the roulette wheel scores results. The very use of the word "analysis" in such a situation looks to me ridiculous.
All this IMHO, of course.

Best regards.
 
PL amnesia definitely isn't a good thing, tyvm. It's the curse that keeps us from preserving the knowledge we so cherish, a degenerative disease that deserves to be eradicated with extreme prejudice. One of my many career goals is to develop effective therapeutic measures to prevent the ubiquitous childhood loss of PLM's. I believe this is a problem that can be solved, I hate it with an unending passion, and I am going to kill it with fire. My wrath isn't directed at you or anyone, I'm just righteously indignant for the kids that nothing is being done to ameliorate this situation. It's a crime against humanity and all that is good and holy, the end. Thank you for listening to my TED talk.

Stepping off that soapbox, there are definitely patterns to be gleaned from the data. Researchers have a lot of cases on file now, even more than those of us here might expect, and there is more than enough sample size for trends to be statistically significant, often to infinitesimal p-values. The almost universal tendency of BL memories to mention the choice to come back is one, as is the fact that there seems to be zero evidence of karma or any moralistic process to reincarnation. Such quantitative things as death-rebirth interval, geographical locations of past and present lives, and the correlation of birthmarks with PL injuries also qualify, although they don't bear so much on the exact statements. These consistencies are the most exciting part about the research, tbh, and they're what make the data as a whole so impossible to deny; it's my belief that those who reject it simply haven't researched it enough. This is borne out by my observation that attempted debunks of the work tend to focus on the obvious worst data points; I've never seen anyone even try to go after any of Stevenson's true A-grade cases.
 
I agree that it would be helpful if reincarnation was better accepted, but to recall all of the terrible things that have happened to me, or things I have been a part of would leave me wishing for the amnesia IMO. It might help alieviate the problem of the folks that pray upon the people that fear death, but perhaps there is a good reason for not knowing. For me personally, I was fed enough hints to make the experience [I'm searching for a word] acceptable(?) - something I could handle with just an Attitude. Personally, I'd just a soon know the reason for my having a physical experience. Being at this point in my life' and looking back, I still don't know what it was all about.
 
KenJ said:
MOOnstOne, even though I've experienced Tons of paranormal and Memories, I sometimes wonder where the line between imagination and actual memories lies. I think it is normal to second-guess yourself.
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Thank you so much for saying that! I can drive myself mad with second-guessing, lol. It's great to (believe I) have both a decent imagination and an okay-working intuitive sense, but live in fear of mistaking one for the other. I've had massive, capital-I Intuitions that ended up going nowhere while getting T-boned by other events (not quite as pleasurable as it sounds). If I'm gonna have a trusting relationship with my Spidey-sense (which includes LBL sessions), it needs to be a lot more informative and consistent than it has been!

Jack E said:
PL amnesia definitely isn't a good thing, tyvm. It's the curse that keeps us from preserving the knowledge we so cherish, a degenerative disease that deserves to be eradicated with extreme prejudice.
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This right here. Why should a person have to suffer with medical or emotional issues that doctors can't fix, when it's a leftover "lesson" from a PL? Let's say that Sally has such an issue-- say, an unrelenting case of frozen shoulder. Why should she have to live with years of debility and frustration with medical professionals, unless and until she can both find and AFFORD a LBL therapist?

How is that instructive? How is that part of some great and loving "plan" for evolution? Forgive my apparent ignorance, but that sounds like a lot of coy, passive-aggressive swamp gas to me.

Let's put it another way. Sally has adopted a puppy. He's adorable, but not yet housebroken. Inevitably, he piddles on the living room carpet. Does Sally use this as a teaching moment to show the puppy what to do when the urge strikes, or does she ignore it and let him forget about it, then smack him on the nose for it three weeks later and smile lovingly at him while he yelps?

Teach the puppy how to signal that it's time for walkies.
Teach Sally that her frozen shoulder isn't a physical problem she has, but rather a relic of being shot on a WWI battlefield two lifetimes ago.

See how much healthier that is?
 
Regarding the subject of second-guessing yourself: yeah, it's normal. It can be a good thing, because we rightfully should cast doubt on outlandish magical worldviews and be inclined to find natural explanations for things; it's our innate BS detector. I like to think I have a good, strong one. But the catch is, if you're second-guessing, we have a verisimilitude problem, because the real McCoys do not second-guess themselves. It's one of the defining universal traits of an authentic PLM case, and in most of the research it goes without even saying. They know where their memories derive from, and actually, they've never even given thought to the possibility that they could come from anything but their PL. They don't even know how to second-guess, any alternative is unimaginable to them because they perceive their past and current lives as a complete unbroken continuity of experience. You'll never hear an honest-to-God PLM subject say "maybe all that didn't really happen after all"; they can forget things, but while they remember they seem incapable of skepticism. This applies as well to subjects who retain their PLM's into adulthood, I've never heard one express a lick of uncertainty; they retain the same attitude about them that they always had.
(...Somehow I have a sinking feeling that this is going to tick someone off again, so if anyone thinks I'm attacking them specifically, understand that I'm definitely not. I'm also not ruling out the possibility that an isolated case may rarely express some doubt, especially at the age they start to forget things. I'm just citing the data and trying to educate the public, something I like to do. Please see that my intentions are good before thinking of starting a flame war.)

I'm not sure what you're getting at off my comment, Moonstone; I was referring to the scourge of "age-7 forgetting syndrome", not deceitfully foisting a PL on someone who never had one to start. Um, thanks? for the support. I guess. But you definitely twisted my words. I'm an outspoken critic of the deceptive practices that run rampant in the past life field, and I don't feel comfortable being quoted in such a way. No one needs to be taught they had a PL, like I said above, the genuine articles know. You want me to say I'm okay with some charlatan regressionist convincing people that their medical conditions are all in their head, for reasons that aren't even in their head at all? That's a lot of swamp gas too, pure 1700s quackery. I need to be more careful how I can be interpreted, and not give blanket statements like "PL amnesia is bad" anymore, that apparently can be turned into "never having had PLM's at all is bad, so you get PLM's, you get PLM's, you get PLM's, everyone gets PLM's!" God help me. I'm losing my mind here just trying to stay sane.
 
Jack E said:
Regarding the subject of second-guessing yourself: yeah, it's normal. It can be a good thing, because we rightfully should cast doubt on outlandish magical worldviews and be inclined to find natural explanations for things; it's our innate BS detector. I like to think I have a good, strong one. But the catch is, if you're second-guessing, we have a verisimilitude problem, because the real McCoys do not second-guess themselves. It's one of the defining universal traits of an authentic PLM case, and in most of the research it goes without even saying. They know where their memories derive from, and actually, they've never even given thought to the possibility that they could come from anything but their PL. They don't even know how to second-guess, any alternative is unimaginable to them because they perceive their past and current lives as a complete unbroken continuity of experience. You'll never hear an honest-to-God PLM subject say "maybe all that didn't really happen after all"; they can forget things, but while they remember they seem incapable of skepticism. This applies as well to subjects who retain their PLM's into adulthood, I've never heard one express a lick of uncertainty; they retain the same attitude about them that they always had. [/I]
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Spot on, Jack, with second-guessing, as far as I'm concerned. Here's something I wrote very recently, in response to someone who was beginning to doubt themself after 'seeing' something they weren't sure was accurate from what they'd read about German weapons:-

"I think absolutely anything is possible, particularly regarding weapons. There were many things 'out of the ordinary'. We Germans were very inventive, that was how we ticked. We could adapt anything for any purpose, if we saw a need. Those of us who were There are more likely to be accurate than someone who wasn't, writing a modern account.

There's a certain danger in getting info from other sources. Interesting as it is, there's no certainty. Far more likely to be accurate are your personal memories, particularly of something unusual. You'd have no reason to invent that.

I've had lots of instances where I've 'seen' things and thought 'that can't be right, it doesn't fit in with such-and-such' ... only to find out later that it was. I think we need to be confident in our recollections, whilst still holding a healthy skepticism. We have no reason to invent anything for our own purposes - truth is far stranger than fiction, in any case."
 
Jack E said:
Regarding the subject of second-guessing yourself: yeah, it's normal. It can be a good thing, because we rightfully should cast doubt on outlandish magical worldviews and be inclined to find natural explanations for things; it's our innate BS detector. I like to think I have a good, strong one. But the catch is, if you're second-guessing, we have a verisimilitude problem, because the real McCoys do not second-guess themselves. It's one of the defining universal traits of an authentic PLM case {...}
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You know who else never second-guesses themselves? Those who seek to deceive, the very ones you've declared war against. So no, I do not think certainty is the watermark of whether or not a PL experience is genuine. Also, speaking for myself who's only attempted an LBL once and as yet have a minimal skill set, I'll be damned if I'm going to strut around declaring that I was an asthmatic 11-year-old girl in the '30s this early on. I don't have any confirmed successes to go on at this time.

Confidence is one thing, as those who have more trust in their experiences would reflect. But MY BS detector pings around anyone who's heavyhanded with the "I'm Right" attitude, and it takes time to determine from where that confidence is coming (either genuine experience or hucksterism).


Jack E said:
I'm not sure what you're getting at off my comment, Moonstone; I was referring to the scourge of "age-7 forgetting syndrome", not deceitfully foisting a PL on someone who never had one to start. Um, thanks? for the support. I guess. But you definitely twisted my words.
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...Wow.

I was merely riffing on what I thought you were presenting. I was looking neither to support you nor "twist your words". Rest assured that you do not know my intent; not only is the ink still fresh on my registration, but aside from just starting to find my feet in this field, I don't know my intent either! Until I do, I am going to stumble, ask odd questions... and yes, QUOTE PEOPLE. That's how this kind of thing works.

For someone not trying to start a flame war, you seem bound and determined to see the seeds of one behind every other post.
 
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