Good deeds and soul age

[Obie]

Do older souls generally experience tougher lives and do younger souls experience easier lives b/c that is all that they are able to handle?

I see people who have nothing given to them and awful childhoods sometimes become the best of people. And people with wonderful lives where they are given the best of everything not amount to much. Why is this? Do old souls persevere no matter what? Do they always end up as good people who are capable of a lot of good?

 

[Blackbird]

Many I admire most seem to have (or have had) a particularly tough time in the world. I've often thought it seems as though they've enrolled in 'graduate courses,' as it were!


This statement by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross rings true to me:


“The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen.”


And I also think that the compassion and gentleness may well up after a good bit of natural anger, frustration and confusion have harrowed the field. I think perhaps one of the most important things is to be gentle with one's own flaws and failures in the midst of suffering... Growth is a strange organic non-linear thing, with unguessable ingredients, or so it seems to me.

 

[AOSpare]

In reincarnation you will never get into more than you can handle...I think just the opposite...


Younger souls tend have it harder, but what is hard and easy life depends on your attitude and resilience. How you perceive hardships and adversity can be different for each and every one of you. Old souls usually have no expectations for beyond the bare necessities while younger souls would think with their ego and perceive that material means beyond their basic needs are paramount for their happiness. However, and this is the important part! Misdeeds can and will happen! We can go astray at any level of our "soul-age" and then you somehow will have to "reap what you have sown." Very high beings can and sometimes do make drastic karmic mistakes. These can be betrayal or other interpersonal issues.

Do older souls generally experience tougher lives and do younger souls experience easier lives b/c that is all that they are able to handle?
I see people who have nothing given to them and awful childhoods sometimes become the best of people. And people with wonderful lives where they are given the best of everything not amount to much. Why is this? Do old souls persevere no matter what? Do they always end up as good people who are capable of a lot of good?

 

[Blackbird]

Yet, Paramahansa Yogananda, whose autobiography you mentioned, AOSpar, commented that 'saints have the hardest lives of all." I think it is perilous to imagine that troubles indicate the beginner, or even the preponderance of error. I must cast my (needless to say totally guessed at) vote with Obie's view, I think...


Should add that I suspect it can happen both ways, in infinitely complex combinations that are beyond guessing -- for instance, the sufferings of Anne Frank and her enduring, eloquent response to them are clearly quite different from the travails of John Wayne Gacy, serial killing party clown.


I suppose my feeling is that simplification is perilous...

 

[tanguerra]

Do older souls generally experience tougher lives and do younger souls experience easier lives b/c that is all that they are able to handle?
I see people who have nothing given to them and awful childhoods sometimes become the best of people. And people with wonderful lives where they are given the best of everything not amount to much. Why is this? Do old souls persevere no matter what? Do they always end up as good people who are capable of a lot of good?

Maybe some people are still working it out and it's nothing to do with their age, and everything to do with their attitude? Some people will be miserable no matter what, won't they? I read somewhere about people winning the lottery. If they were cheerful optimistic people before they won, they were the same happy people a year or so after the big win. Those who tended to be miserable and mean were still miserable and mean a year after they won a big prize. Many of them complained about it! They said they kept getting pestered for loans by their relatives.


Maybe it's not related to the 'age' of the soul (if there is such a thing). You can get old people who are completely clueless about life, just as you can get young ones who are very, very wise.


Maybe there is no why? Maybe it's random evolution? Maybe it's not all part of a plan?

 

[Demi]

Yet, Paramahansa Yogananda, whose autobiography you mentioned, AOSpar, commented that 'saints have the hardest lives of all."

Oh, I totally believe that. I've heard that from a person who was a disciple of a Shankaracharya, who did a lot of practice out in the Himalayas, and he said once he came back to society, it was like "going to hell". It was the smells and all of that mess we don't see because we have gotten used to it. But for someone who lived a very pure life, with very refined consciousness experiences, it's hell no doubt, as that person feels everything, such as the messed up energies of places and angry people... and all of that feels very real and tangible to them, like a physical pain. And so they must develop a way to protect themselves, and yet do their work in the world (and it is nice of them).


And whenever more people get spiritual in the world, I believe, everyone is going to have to go through the phase of seeing all the dirt and vibes around them, and how much "it stinks!"...

 

[Eowyn]

Yet, Paramahansa Yogananda, whose autobiography you mentioned, AOSpar, commented that 'saints have the hardest lives of all."

Oh, I totally believe that. I've heard that from a person who was a disciple of a Shankaracharya, who did a lot of practice out in the Himalayas, and he said once he came back to society, it was like "going to hell". It was the smells and all of that mess we don't see because we have gotten used to it. But for someone who lived a very pure life, with very refined consciousness experiences, it's hell no doubt, as that person feels everything, such as the messed up energies of places and angry people... and all of that feels very real and tangible to them, like a physical pain. And so they must develop a way to protect themselves, and yet do their work in the world (and it is nice of them).


And whenever more people get spiritual in the world, I believe, everyone is going to have to go through the phase of seeing all the dirt and vibes around them, and how much "it stinks!"...

Well, I don't agree with this at all. If you are allegedly a more "spiritually evolved" person, you are able to feel a lot of love and compassion towards all these "dirty people" like me living down here, especially knowing you were one of them not long ago. If you feel "superior" or think living here is like "Hell" because you can't stand humanity only shows you need to mingle more with them and learn to love them.


From my point of view, "saints" as such don't exist. In the spiritual world we all are the same, and being a soul with more experience doesn't make you better either, that's like saying your elder brother is better just because he's older. And while we keep looking for "masters" who have to teach us something, we forget God (if it exists) is within us and the only master we need is ourselves.


Saying saints live the hardest lives of all is also a generalization. I think it's more accurate to say we all can be saints and sinners, whatever we prefer, in the same life or in different lives.

 

[AOSpare]

"Originally Posted by Blackbird


Yet, Paramahansa Yogananda, whose autobiography you mentioned, AOSpar, commented that 'saints have the hardest lives of all."


Paramahansa Yogananda is a "real-deal", you could be right....


I am not certain who has it better or harder, but let's quote a different saint, Master Jesus that supports this;


“Blessed Are the Ignorant” (1 Sam. 28:1-25),


I'd guess "knowledge" carries a burden, and often knowledge is false and misleading. Of course soul-age is not equated with knowledge but rather wisdom but you get the point...also at some point saints might stumble into the cross-hair of the "dark-forces", which is not very pleasant.


Incidentally, Jesus was tortured and killed, that ought to tell you something....

 

[Demi]

Well, I don't agree with this at all. If you are allegedly a more "spiritually evolved" person, you are able to feel a lot of love and compassion towards all these "dirty people" like me living down here, especially knowing you were one of them not long ago. If you feel "superior" or think living here is like "Hell" because you can't stand humanity only shows you need to mingle more with them and learn to love them.

You misunderstood what I said. There is no element of feeling "superior", or better than anyone. Those people do not judge anything, and they experience compassion with everything and everyone. That is why they come out to the world to help, even if at some level it is not comfortable for them.


And what I mean by that, is that their nervous system is more refined, more pure, ergo more sensitive. When one becomes sensitive to love, one becomes sensitive to everything else too, that is the downside. The influences of the environment. It is not personal or emotional, it is at a concrete, physical level. The environment has an influence on how you feel. It can be uplifting or the opposite.


Imagine that you lived for many years in a smokey drug hole pub with lots of drunks and heroine addicts, and got used to it and found it normal. Then you went away to a nice place where you get off booze, learn philosophy and become sensitive to nature. After that, you return back to the pub... the people there might still be your FRIENDS, and you might love them and want to help them all you can, yet you are not longer feeling comfortable in the environment. Alcohol fumes make you sick, cigarette smoke makes you throw up, and you found there is more to relationships than being paid for sex to fund heroin use. Seeing how wretched they are, you are overrun with compassion, and really want to help them out to show them how being healthy and happy feels like, but they completely do not understand what you are talking about, and all they say when you try is "F... Off" This is sort of how a saint might feel like when coming back into the world, and a 1000 times more strongly.

 

[RainyLotus]

In reincarnation you will never get into more than you can handle...I think just the opposite...
Younger souls tend have it harder

I could not disagree with this statement more. It lacks much truth. Younger souls are incredibly care free, nonchalant, and move through experiences very aloofly. They tend to look at the world like a new born child seeing a butterfly for the first time. It's actually quite inspiring to witness such individuals who find just about everything that moves entertaining. Life is not kind. It is for those perhaps born into easy circumstances who have never had struggles. We may chose to incarnate into tougher positions to attain enlightenment. Enlightenment will never be possible without suffering. And I don't mean Grandma dying last week. We all experience sadness and loss. But to experience the harder things in life, like 'not' being a part of the crowd, not fitting in because one is different, or not fitting in because you're perhaps more mature and wise beyond your years. I have always suffered for being too wise beyond my years. Young people do not want to spend time with another young individual who caries the weight of the world upon their shoulders. I have always known things, since being very small. And I am particularly sensitive to philosophical and ethical subjects, they are of great importance to me. Most young people just want to talk about partying, getting drunk, and being irresponsible. They gang up on other young people like a pack of wolves or sharks. It happens everywhere, from the professional business world or many other types of social situations. It is very uncommon that I meet an individual who is also wise beyond their years, and feels as though they are 29 going on 70, as I do. This alone, has made life full of great suffering. Though it isn't something that saddens me any more, it's something I accept as a strength. I know I am an old soul, I have always known and so have my parents. They knew I chose them by the time I was 2-3. And I have known much suffering through out my life. I will say that.


I spent a great deal of my youth being demonized and bullied at a catholic school for not 'agreeing' with the church, I had parents not wanting their children to hang out with me because my parents were 'Buddhist', I was often times isolated and completely alone. My parents sent me to an expensive and elite catholic school for the education, of which I most certainly got the best of the best. College prep by the time you were in 6th grade.. However, most of my life at this school (K-12) was always being the outsider looking in, never knowing proper friendship, or knowing what its like to have people like you. All I had to do to be dis-liked, was not follow the herd. People operate like sheep, often times. Take the one who's different and cast him outside of the circle. This is suffering - but it has brought me great character and compassion for others who have known a lifetime of being bullied, harassed, or not part of the crowd or popular opinion. I came out on the light side now in my late 20's, and I never allowed my soul to go dark. I am full of light, love, and understanding. I have compassion and patience for all people because of what I went through. But I carry great sensitivity to those who aren't 'the popular' kids in life because of being different. I do believe this is some of the greatest suffering one can undergo spiritually, beyond the physical sense.

 

[AOSpare]

Rainy,


Which sentence? You have quoted both. Either way, it is silly to quibble on who has it easier or harder. I have mentioned above that it is subjective and depends on YOU and how you roll with the punches.


"In reincarnation you will never get into more than you can handle" do you disagree with this, too?

I could not disagree with this statement more.

 

[RainyLotus]

Imagine that you lived for many years in a smokey drug hole pub with lots of drunks and heroine addicts, and got used to it and found it normal. Then you went away to a nice place where you get off booze, learn philosophy and become sensitive to nature. After that, you return back to the pub... the people there might still be your FRIENDS, and you might love them and want to help them all you can, yet you are not longer feeling comfortable in the environment. Alcohol fumes make you sick, cigarette smoke makes you throw up, and you found there is more to relationships than being paid for sex to fund heroin use. Seeing how wretched they are, you are overrun with compassion, and really want to help them out to show them how being healthy and happy feels like, but they completely do not understand what you are talking about, and all they say when you try is "F... Off" This is sort of how a saint might feel like when coming back into the world, and a 1000 times more strongly.

What you've said here is a great example of what it means to become more enlightened (if one chooses this route). Choosing to not be a part of it all doesn't necessarily mean you're a coward. One does deserve peace, after all. And if this, as the example you chose, is no longer peace to the enlightened individual, then by all means, get the heck out of dodge. I retreated from the city to the mountains 5 years ago because I felt spiritually poisoned by it all. I now live on 45 acres with a 360' of 14K peak mountains. Not waking up to the hustle and bustle of city life every day has brought great peace to my soul. It was the best decision I ever made, and my spirit no longer feels poisoned. Am I cowardly saint now? I hope not..

 

[RainyLotus]

Rainy,
Which sentence? You have quoted both. Either way, it is silly to quibble on who has it easier or harder. I have mentioned above that it is subjective and depends on YOU and how you roll with the punches.


"In reincarnation you will never get into more than you can handle" do you disagree with this, too?

I actually only deleted some of your paragraph out to make sure there was room to post. I'm new, and didn't know how many characters it will allow.. I was quoting your entire statement. Do I agree with not getting more into what we can't handle, regarding reincarnation? No, I don't agree, because of free will. It is the free will of others that effects how quickly or slowly our souls progress into a more enlightened state of being. We can't control any one. I could get murdered tomorrow, or brutally beaten to death, and I wouldn't blame it on Karma or my soul's stage of evolution. Free will is far more powerful than Karma, if that even exists.. I don't ever blame Karma on bad experiences or bad luck. It is what it is, and that is the nature of reality. Though the people who are inflicting pain upon others, whether it be emotionally or physically, are certainly DE-evolving quite rapidly..


I don't think we can fully prepare ourselves for anything, but surely it is our soul's current state of evolution that effects the way we handle the experience. An older and more experienced soul is going to handle pain with grace. And by grace I mean, just because he/she got dumped on their whole lives (much like I have), they will not take it out on others or inflict pain upon others because they felt they got a rotten hand at cards this life. The younger soul will consider it the end of their world and react like a child, inflicting pain emotionally (or physically) to people as some sort of justification for the fact they aren't getting the perfect life. Most criminals, for example, often times have the psychological background of an individual who underwent a lot of abuse growing up - so, they are now dishing out the same treatment to the world. These are our young souls. Turning lemons into lemonade, is the idea. It's not very easy to do. I mean, it's not as if the more experienced souls even realize they are experienced when handling a terrible situation. Often times they have no idea and its those around them who are observant to their evolution stage. I have known people who were beaten, abused, and tormented as children (modern psychology would say these people are at high risk to become troubled members of society), and they turned into some of the most enlightened , kind, and caring individuals I know. It blows your mind that that could even be possible judging by what they endured. With no example of love, how did they do it? They may not believe in reincarnation. What they don't realize, is that they were already prepared to handle it because of their spiritual evolution's stage, something they perhaps aren't aware of. Their past lives provided them the tools to see the abuse for what it was, rather than internalize it and become full of hatred/poison. Just my two cents.

 

[AOSpare]

Interesting post. When it comes to most things I am a determinist except for 1)quantum mechanics, where I am an indeterminist and 2)the human mind, where I am a proponent of free will. We seem to have choices but isn't that perhaps an illusion?

No, I don't agree, because of free will. It is the free will of others that effects how quickly or slowly our souls progress into a more enlightened state of being. We can't control any one. I could get murdered tomorrow, or brutally beaten to death, and I wouldn't blame it on Karma or my soul's stage of evolution. Free will is far more powerful than Karma, if that even exists.. I don't ever blame Karma on bad experiences or bad luck. It is what it is, and that is the nature of reality. Though the people who are inflicting pain upon others, whether it be emotionally or physically, are certainly DE-evolving quite rapidly..
I don't think we can fully prepare ourselves for anything, but surely it is our soul's current state of evolution that effects the way we handle the experience. An older and more experienced soul is going to handle pain with grace. And by grace I mean, just because he/she got dumped on their whole lives (much like I have), they will not take it out on others or inflict pain upon others because they felt they got a rotten hand at cards this life. The younger soul will consider it the end of their world and react like a child, inflicting pain emotionally (or physically) to people as some sort of justification for the fact they aren't getting the perfect life. Most criminals, for example, often times have the psychological background of an individual who underwent a lot of abuse growing up - so, they are now dishing out the same treatment to the world. These are our young souls. Turning lemons into lemonade, is the idea. It's not very easy to do. I mean, it's not as if the more experienced souls even realize they are experienced when handling a terrible situation. Often times they have no idea and its those around them who are observant to their evolution stage. I have known people who were beaten, abused, and tormented as children (modern psychology would say these people are at high risk to become troubled members of society), and they turned into some of the most enlightened , kind, and caring individuals I know. It blows your mind that that could even be possible judging by what they endured. With no example of love, how did they do it? They may not believe in reincarnation. What they don't realize, is that they were already prepared to handle it because of their spiritual evolution's stage, something they perhaps aren't aware of. Their past lives provided them the tools to see the abuse for what it was, rather than internalize it and become full of hatred/poison. Just my two cents.

 

[RainyLotus]

How could it be an illusion? We all can change any single thing we want in our lives at any given time. I'm a fan of putting myself in uncomfortable situations that I normally wouldn't do, just to prove to myself: Yeah, I'll do it. It's like constantly testing the 'system', if there was a system per-determining anything.. Sort of like: Hey, you think you're going to send me in that direction because my thoughts are steering that way? Nah, screw you. I think I'll go this way instead. I'm constantly re-charting/re-routing what I'd like to do.. I know, I sound like a firecracker. Huh? I'll be moving to the Oregon coast this spring, just because I'm ready for a change, and want one.. My long term companion passed away recently of cancer, so I'm randomly and chaotically picking a new place to call home. I just need the change of scenery. Of course I'll be going prepared (I'm not that impulsive..)


Most certainly though, that is free will in its glory. wine**

 

[AOSpare]

I believe we "exist" on many levels/dimensions. Maya(Illusion) in this temporal life (according to the Hindu's/Buddhists view is all just in our head(mind). Paradoxically, in this "illusion" of life we are making wise or dumb choice, decisions etc. But Life/Nature is choreographed to perfection.


Namaste (means merry Christmas) among other things...


Anyway, welcome to my madness Lotus

How could it be an illusion? We all can change any single thing we want in our lives at any given time. I'm a fan of putting myself in uncomfortable situations that I normally wouldn't do, just to prove to myself: Yeah, I'll do it. It's like constantly testing the 'system', if there was a system per-determining anything.. Sort of like: Hey, you think you're going to send me in that direction because my thoughts are steering that way? Nah, screw you. I think I'll go this way instead. I'm constantly re-charting/re-routing what I'd like to do.. I know, I sound like a firecracker. Huh? I'll be moving to the Oregon coast this spring, just because I'm ready for a change, and want one.. My long term companion passed away recently of cancer, so I'm randomly and chaotically picking a new place to call home. I just need the change of scenery. Of course I'll be going prepared (I'm not that impulsive..)
Most certainly though, that is free will in its glory. wine**

 

[Eowyn]

You misunderstood what I said. There is no element of feeling "superior", or better than anyone. Those people do not judge anything, and they experience compassion with everything and everyone. That is why they come out to the world to help, even if at some level it is not comfortable for them.
And what I mean by that, is that their nervous system is more refined, more pure, ergo more sensitive. When one becomes sensitive to love, one becomes sensitive to everything else too, that is the downside. The influences of the environment. It is not personal or emotional, it is at a concrete, physical level. The environment has an influence on how you feel. It can be uplifting or the opposite.


Imagine that you lived for many years in a smokey drug hole pub with lots of drunks and heroine addicts, and got used to it and found it normal. Then you went away to a nice place where you get off booze, learn philosophy and become sensitive to nature. After that, you return back to the pub... the people there might still be your FRIENDS, and you might love them and want to help them all you can, yet you are not longer feeling comfortable in the environment. Alcohol fumes make you sick, cigarette smoke makes you throw up, and you found there is more to relationships than being paid for sex to fund heroin use. Seeing how wretched they are, you are overrun with compassion, and really want to help them out to show them how being healthy and happy feels like, but they completely do not understand what you are talking about, and all they say when you try is "F... Off" This is sort of how a saint might feel like when coming back into the world, and a 1000 times more strongly.

Their nervous system is more refined... and this, was analyzed, by who? Is there really any physical sign in a nervous system to say someone is "sainter" than others? I've always been quite sensitive, I've never been comfortable in most places like those you describe, and I like to help people, and some of them even told me to "F... off", do you think that makes me a saint?


Learning philosophy and become sensitive to nature doesn't make you sainter either. Am I a saint because I am a veggie and I feel compassion for animals and try to convince people to stop eating meat? I don't think so (Just to clarify, it's just an example, I don't try to convince anyone to stop eating meat, it's their choice, and what I think it's right, it's right for me, not everyone else). Nothing guarantees in my next life I'll be a veggie again, by the way, the same way I was a hunter once and now I wouldn't be able to shoot anyone. So, I don't think any person considered "a saint" by us like Teresa of Calcuta is planning her next reincarnation thinking we need her help, probably she has her own personal agenda.


Btw, don't take my comments so personally, quoting you doesn't mean I'm totally against you, I'm just reflecting and saying my opinion. I know what I read, but I can introduce my own elements like "feeling superior", can't I? I think that's what many "gurus" and so called "spiritual figures" do, even when they don't show it.

 

[AOSpare]

Welcome to the West Coast Brother.(I have lived in Colorado briefly)


Also, I am sorry about your companion. The "free will" thing is an age old philosophical sticking point, that cannot be settled. In my mind I am also somewhat skeptical of any "ultimate truth" is this matter. What I have learnt in my life that true spirituality= myriads of paradoxes. We cannot just know for certain, because as soon as we do, it will flip on us, on a dime.

How could it be an illusion? We all can change any single thing we want in our lives at any given time. I'm a fan of putting myself in uncomfortable situations that I normally wouldn't do, just to prove to myself: Yeah, I'll do it. It's like constantly testing the 'system', if there was a system per-determining anything.. Sort of like: Hey, you think you're going to send me in that direction because my thoughts are steering that way? Nah, screw you. I think I'll go this way instead. I'm constantly re-charting/re-routing what I'd like to do.. I know, I sound like a firecracker. Huh? I'll be moving to the Oregon coast this spring, just because I'm ready for a change, and want one.. My long term companion passed away recently of cancer, so I'm randomly and chaotically picking a new place to call home. I just need the change of scenery. Of course I'll be going prepared (I'm not that impulsive..)
Most certainly though, that is free will in its glory. wine**

 

[Demi]

Their nervous system is more refined... and this, was analyzed, by who? Is there really any physical sign in a nervous system to say someone is "sainter" than others?

There actually is, and it is measured on an EEG, people with global brain coherence (activation of brain waves in many areas simultaneously) and Alpha1 in the waking state, experience higher states of consciousness, which is the ability to experience "restful alertness." It is a deeply peaceful internal state even in the midst of dynamic activity (as opposed to most people whose inner peace is determined by circumstances/overshadowed by activity). Other sign is "witnessing sleep", which is during all stages of sleep, including the deep dreamless state, one is blissfully aware. One's awareness never goes to sleep, so to say. Other measures include skin resistance, breath rate, etc. So the physiology is linked to consciousness, and the purity in nervous system - how well the body channels consciousness, determines these things. People in this state when asked to describe it, tell its absolute inner freedom from fear and an acceptance of all things, and they feel like they are being subtly helped by higher powers at all time. They say it's a wonderful state of mind, also called "flow" by athletes, and "enlightenment" in world traditions.


Yes there are a lot of fake guru's, and the random person next door could be in higher states...


Hook your guru up to an EEG... (Or at least check on the signs.)

 

[Eowyn]

Well, if you want to back your beliefs with science, let's do it right. First, I'd appreciate an actual link to this scientific study you mention, to see for myself if it's valid.


In the meanwhile, I hope this study includes clear definitions of "saints" and "enlightened people", as I thought we were talking of these, not of athletes. In a scientific study we have to know from the beginning the objective of our study and the subjects we are going to use for the experiment.


I know the existence of studies that focused on the brain of meditators, such as Tibetan monks. And it's a proven fact that meditators have certain areas more developed than normal people, but does this mean Tibetan monks are all saints or enlightened? I think that's like saying all nuns are good and more advanced souls than the rest of us, and I know a few who stole babies from their mothers to sell them to other women... Also, if I commit myself from this very moment to meditate all day long and practice astral projection every night, it's quite likely the structure of my brain will change after a few years. Does that mean I'll also be an enlightened, more loving and compassionate person, and I will be so for the rest of eternity and I'll come back in my next incarnation as an avatar to bring light to human beings? Let me doubt it.


You say: "the physiology is linked to consciousness, and the purity in nervous system - how well the body channels consciousness, determines these things". This might be well your theory or your opinion, but I doubt this comes from scientific knowledge, as scientists have still a lot of research to do to determine what consciousness is, where it resides, and how it influences our bodies. As far as I know, scientists still doubt if we indeed survive death, as the latest study conducted on NDE's by Sam Parnia has brought nothing different than what we already knew from Dr. Moody.


That said, does "consciousness" affect our phisiology? Well, according to my experience, yes, undoubtedly. Everyone who meditates in a regular basis knows this, but this alone doesn't prove anything, beyond the fact that we, somehow, can control our body. My own theory is our soul can influence our physical body, including genetics, especially at the moment of birth. The more you meditate, the more aware you become, you also gain intuition and it's possible you even start seeing other realities, but someone who is born with these "abilities" or someone who develops them through hard training (like lamas do) is not necessarily a "saint", an "old soul" or someone enlightened. It only means they learned the techniques to do this, something we all can do.

Hook your guru up to an EEG... (Or at least check on the signs.)

No, I don't have gurus, so I can't measure that. But I've been feeling for a few weeks strange sensations in my brain's right temporal lobe (some say it's related to mystical experiences) and lately I'm constantly feeling pressure in the center of my forehead, maybe you'd be surprised if you hook me up to an EEG, or any other people in this forum. And no, I'm no one special. Least of all a saint.

 

[Eowyn]

And to answer Obie's questions:

Do older souls generally experience tougher lives and do younger souls experience easier lives b/c that is all that they are able to handle?

I don't believe in old souls and young souls, at most I'd say there are more or less experienced souls. I think that everyone can choose the "level of toughness" in their next life, and they also can choose how to react to them.

I see people who have nothing given to them and awful childhoods sometimes become the best of people. And people with wonderful lives where they are given the best of everything not amount to much. Why is this? Do old souls persevere no matter what? Do they always end up as good people who are capable of a lot of good?

The reason is free will. We don't necessarily come here to do "better", it's all a matter of choice. It's possible souls with more experience have wiser reactions, but it doesn't have to be the norm. I think circumstances can be very different from one given life to the other, so if you managed to be "good" in one life, that doesn't mean you will always be as good. Challenges are also different in each life. Some people will fight hard whatever those challenges are, some will do fine and some will fail. Then others just won't care if they'll fail or not, but I don't think this depends on how "old" you are, it just depends on what you want to do at that moment.

 

[Demi]

Some Scientific Research on Consciousness, Meditation and Physiology:


http://issue5.tmmagazine.org/the-science-of-enlightenment.html


http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/TMResearch/NewStudies/CosmicConsiousness/index.cfm


http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/TMResearch/ComparisonofTechniques/index.cfm


http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/TMResearch/TMResearchSummary/index.cfm


There is a lot,you can look around for yourself.


and btw, the difference between a "saint" (collateral term, anyway) and athlete, technically is just that the word "saint" would usually refer to a person in higher state of consciousness permanently, which the athlete may experience only during "peak". Who says that an athlete can't be a saint, sainthood is not a profession... not to say that somebody who meditates is necessarily a saint, or has achieved perfection, but research shows that meditation is a thing anyone can do to become more evolved slash happy.

 

[Eowyn]

Thanks for the links, Demi. It just reassures me I was right after all, in my previous post. Trascendental meditation is something everyone can learn, it causes beneficial effects as I already knew, and "saints" is just the name some people choose to refer to someone they believe have achieved "something" no one can defined accurately.


In my opinion, the only ones who can live in a permanent state of consciousness are dead, living in the spiritual world and possibly planning their next reincarnation as we all will do sooner or later. And of course athletes can be saints. We all can be saints or sinners, at least we agree in that.

 

[Eowyn]

Thanks for the links, Demi. It just reassures me I was right after all, in my previous post. We all can learn trascendental meditation, it has beneficial effects as I already knew, and "saints" is just the name some people choose to refer to someone they believe has achieved "something" no one knows how to define accurately.


I doubt someone can live permanently in a higher state of consciousness. In my opinion the only ones who can do that are dead, living in the spiritual world, and possibly planning their next incarnation, as we all will do sooner or later.


And of course athletes can be saints. We all can be saints or sinners, at least we agree in that.

 

[Demi]

Why would someone not be able to live permanently in a higher state of consciousness?

 

[Eowyn]

I don't think our human minds are prepared for that. I think only God, as I imagine it, can live permanently in a higher state of consciousness, He/She is entirely Consciousness, and that's why He/She is in everything, everywhere, and is inside ALL of us, and aware of everything that happens in the worlds He/She created (as of course we're not the only ones).


I think even the "saintest" (as you like to call them) of us, being incarnated in a human being, can only reach a high state of consciousness for a little while, and even so it would not be the "highest" state, and of course it would always be a partial vision. Our mind is a filter, a barrier between our true selves and the "beings" we are here. Only when you die you get rid of that mind (the mental body as esoteric teachings say). And even in spiritual form, we would be still very, very, faraway from that "Super-consciousness" that, in my opinion, is God. Merging with the Source right after your death, as many people believe, sounds beautiful, but for me it's just a delusion. Among other things, because we are already merged with God, we are part of God.


Talking to someone else about why I don't like the word "spiritual evolution" (he's a regression therapist and older than me, but apart from that we're just truth seekers), he said these wise words I fully agree with:

"What persists in human reincarnation could be defined as energy conscious of itself, we call it in many ways, spirit, soul, essence, being. This energy (spirit) transforms itself, moves, changes (of vibration), progresses, that is to say, evolves, according to the dictionary. Not for the better, as it's already perfect in itself, like a seed is perfect in itself and transforms, changes, develops, progresses to a tree that is also perfect in itself, that is to say, evolves. According to my perception and others', we are not here to be better (who judges that?), nor to become perfect beings, we already are! in our essence, nor to merge with God, we are already merged!, only we haven't realized it yet".

He added this notion ruffles feathers when he says it, as we're used to hear this kind of beliefs everywhere and it's hard to break them. But that's something we have in common! : angel


It's alright if you want to put your admiration on someone and desire to be like them, but I don't think we need that. There's no one better than you, just because he appears to be more patient or more compasionate, or has learned to live without food or has reached "nirvana" a couple of times, according to them. They're just human after all.

 

[John Tat]

There has been plenty of opinions given on this subject in this thread. Young souls, old souls, higher self's and so on.


In all of the discussions on reincarnation including this one in my opinion the most important subject which has the greatest influence of all this is never discussed is, the mothers soul. For many months housed within the human mothers body are two souls. Herr's and yours when you are reincarnating


If you believe in reincarnation then you would have to be naïve to believe the two souls do not communicate with each other whilst the are together within the mothers body.


Just one of many area's of concern is the potential for memory to be swapped between the souls, which would cause us all sorts of problems and confusion as we search for our previous lives. That is if our souls have memory


If the mothers souls is older and more advanced again you would have to be naïve to believe that the mothers souls does not give the younger soul plenty of knowledge and guidance during there time together. It would also happen in the reverse if the reincarnating soul was more advanced


This is a subject I have been guided to during my travels. It is I believe of great importance to the reincarnation process

 

[Demi]

I don't think our human minds are prepared for that. I think only God, as I imagine it, can live permanently in a higher state of consciousness, He/She is entirely Consciousness, and that's why He/She is in everything"

If someone can experience higher states of consciousness in glimpses, what prevents anyone to experience them permanently? The nature of life is to grow... everything is attracted to more and more. We are attracted to more and more happiness, and therefore, naturally, we are attracted to live in higher and higher states, because more happiness exists in those states. It is that simple, and absolutely automatic, because there is no soul on this planet who does not one way or the other constantly seek more happiness.


"Our mind is a filter, a barrier between our true selves and the "beings" we are here. Only when you die you get rid of that mind (the mental body as esoteric teachings say)."


The nature of the mind is infinitely flexible! Thinking that the mind cannot experience any state of consciousness is just due to the fact that people have tried the wrong way, and it did not work. Does not mean it cannot do it because... if it couldn't how would we even know that there IS a higher state of consciousness?


How we know that there IS divine perception... Somebody must have actually experienced it.


"Merging with the Source right after your death, as many people believe, sounds beautiful, but for me it's just a delusion. Among other things, because we are already merged with God, we are part of God."


And because we are part of God, we can experience all of God. If we weren't part of God, then we probably could not. But since we are, we can experience just the same... because we ARE it.


How I see it, the highest state of consciousness in the universe possible, that is just 100% health... when human physiology is in its natural, healthy state, it is naturally, automatically in the highest state... just because we have gotten so used to less than perfect health, we think that other thing is extra-ordinary, but as those who had it say, it is the most simple awareness possible. It is the most natural, uncomplicated, simple state... Being a "saint" that is just being "normal". Anyone healthy is naturally a nice person... when you feel great, you don't feel like harming anything. And when you feel really great, you even love everything.


" he said these wise words I fully agree with:


...According to my perception and others', we are not here to be better (who judges that?), nor to become perfect beings, we already are! in our essence, nor to merge with God, we are already merged!, only we haven't realized it yet".


Whoever says they do not like to be happy and satisfied are probably lying, and if we try to be happier by harming anything, that is not gonna feel like real happiness, so eventually we try other things... that's what some call "spiritual evolution".


Anyone who tells me they are 100% satisfied with their life (honestly!) that is what I think is perfect health. And when the brain, the body, is in that state, that is when we realize the unity with God that we already are. When we are not tuned in, we still are a part of God, but we don't experience it in this way - we complain about stuff and keep looking... Lot of religions have accepted suffering as a natural human thing, and they are wasting people's time... go look for solutions, because they are out there. So much misery is self inflicted by humans on humans. Society needs to end this cult of suffering. It ain't God, it ain't the Devil, there ain't one darn reason why society as a whole cannot get into developing health and prosperity on all levels, instead of throwing it out of the window every single day.


And religions really succeeded in telling us how incapable we are of reclaiming our own health and spiritual autonomy, so that we can suffer in ignorance and be blind puppets in their hands. They kinda like power.

 

[tanguerra]

The Buddhists talk about living in a state of 'nirvana' or 'enlightenment'. It is a state that can be achieved by various practises, meditation, mindfulness, etc. Even the greatest practioners talk about drifting in and out of this state, but various great sages are supposed to have achieved it better and longer than others.


The Christians talk about being in a 'state of grace' which I imagine is much the same sort of thing.


Various older religions also have practices to induce an altered state of awareness, so I'm sure it's perfectly possible to attain a prolonged state of higher consciousness if one wishes to put in the time and effort.


It's up to each of us how we choose to spend our time in this life. Some might want to spend one life or many seeking enlightenment. Others want love, a family, success, fame, whatever it might be. That's all Ok. There is no single right way to live.

 

[tanguerra]

...For many months housed within the human mothers body are two souls. Her's and yours when you are reincarnating. If you believe in reincarnation then you would have to be naïve to believe the two souls do not communicate with each other whilst the are together within the mothers body.
If the mothers souls is older and more advanced again you would have to be naïve to believe that the mothers souls does not give the younger soul plenty of knowledge and guidance during there time together. It would also happen in the reverse if the reincarnating soul was more advanced


This is a subject I have been guided to during my travels. It is I believe of great importance to the reincarnation process

The baby's soul is 'housed' in its own body, not that of the mother. From what I have read it seems the soul of the infant attaches itself to the body usually after the first few months or so of pregnancy, but it can vary. At first it is attached by the familiar 'silver thread' that people who experience OBEs talk about. People talk about hovering about their mother and father observing what's going on, seeing them decorate the nursery, or having an argument, or various things like this. The soul can pop in and out of the baby's body from time to time at will, to 'stretch its legs' so to speak. But after a while, as the birth approaches, the soul gets more assimilated into the body of the baby.


The souls of mothers and babies do indeed communicate though. Many pregnant women talk about seeing their children in vivid dreams. Some mothers feel that they can 'speak' to the baby's spirit somehow. I guess whether they are aware of the communication going on depends on the sensitivity of both parties.

...Just one of many area's of concern is the potential for memory to be swapped between the souls, which would cause us all sorts of problems and confusion as we search for our previous lives. That is if our souls have memory...

I think our souls are memory, at least in part. No, I don't think there's any danger of them getting mixed up. It doesn't seem to work that way, any more than the mother and child's internal organs would get mixed up. It's a natural process and it seems to work after all.