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Flemish PL in the Eighty Years' War

Reynardine

Reynardine

Senior Registered
A while ago I posted a memory of being captured by the enemy and hanged in what I took to be the English Civil War - the clothes and weapons looked as if they were from the 1640s. I didn't do any further research, though, since I keep having memories of two other lives almost daily, and that keeps me busy enough ;)

A few weeks ago I had another memory of that life, one that made me realise that it was the Eighty Years' War I was remembering and not the English Civil War, and that I was a Geuse, a kind of Flemish guerilla.
It was a memory of myself and maybe five others (there may have been more of us in other places) lying hidden behind some bushes (gorse?), and watching a troop of the enemy retreating. They must have been Spaniards, from their looks and their clothes. A slim young Spaniard, so young that his "moustache" was still fluffy, walked into view, I lifted my musket, fired, and, terrible as this sounds, was deeply satisfied to have caught him directly in the chest.

That memory shocked me very much, and I was pretty shaken for the rest of the day, but a good friend suggested apologising to that Spaniard's "spirit" - I did that, and it seemed to help after a while. I was very relieved but forgot about it again.

Today, as I was driving and thinking of nothing special, I could suddenly hear the words "de Witte Leeuw" spoken in my head. I don't speak Dutch in this life, but I knew it meant "the white lion" - I had no idea what that could mean, so I looked it up when I got home and found this page . At first I was really puzzled because the events took place in 1612/1613, and in my Will Kempe life I had died in 1603. But then those bits I remember from the Geuse life came to my mind again, and I started calculating...I had always felt that I was hanged in 1642 or 1643, and that I was between 28 and 32 at the time. So maybe 1612/1613 was the year I was born in that lifetime, that would fit!

I have no idea why that happened today, but thought I'd post it here. Who knows...
 
Yo Ho Ho

Hi, Reynardine

Here's another Witte Leeuw page.

Other sites that might jog memories of that era — ship-board clothing and other artifacts, such as toothbrushes and a backgammon set) are those regarding the raising and preservation of the Vasa, the Swedish warship and monument to monarchical stupidity and arrogance that foundered in 1628, and the much earlier sinking of Henry VIII's Mary Rose.

By the bye, if you were in the Dutch navy, we may have shot at each other, although the clearest memory of my being in the Royal Navy was during the American War of Independence, or just before. I'm in the water on a rather calm day, watching a ship sink stern first. The huge yellow bow, pointing into a bright blue sky, fills my vision and scares the starch out of my cuffs — or would have if I had had any. Other impressions — a tavern, a print shop and a guy wearing a leather apron — suggest the sinking was off Boston or some other New England town. I don't think I died, though.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrr.
 
Hi, Reynardine,
Have you been able to find out what your connection to the Witte Leeuw was? Maybe a relative was on board, or you were told something like, "You were born the year the Witte Leeuw was lost." Or maybe you were there--if you were born in, say, 1604 in that life, you might have been one of those little brats who lied about his age so he could to sea as a cabinboy. :tongue:
 
I also have been googling and I found a few inns named "De Witte Leeuw",
in Gent (Belgium) there's still an inn called "Herberg de Witte Leeuw" (herberg means inn).
So if that ship doesn't make really sense you could think in that direction.
Because maybe you were born in an inn like that, maybe you stayed there as a Geuse,
maybe it was the secret meeting place of Geuses.

Geuses didn't only fought in Belgium but also in the (now Dutch) provinces,
of Brabant and Zeeland, both provinces are close to the Belgian border.
Especially in Zeeland there's a lot of water and also a lot of ships,
and there have been tough fights between the Spanish troops and the Geuses.
(Hurray, I still remember some history lessons, but if you need more specific information
I need to browse through some books and internet sites, because I really can't recall any specific dates)

This is the symbol of Zeeland a red lion standing in the sea.
Luctor et emergo means something like: I struggle but survive.
This struggle means both the struggle with water and the struggle for freedom
(from the Spaniards and other invaders).

The symbol of Belgium is also a lion (but black on a yellow field).
There are also a lot of songs about the Geuses.
Adriaen Valerius (a Dutch poet and/or composer) wrote a songbook named Nederlantsche Gedenck-klanck.
It's a mixture of Dutch heroism and being proud to be Protestant.

Here are the songs in old Dutch:
http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/vale001nede01/vale001nede01_011.htm
http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/vale001nede01/vale001nede01_012.htm
But hopefully there's also a English or German translation somewhere on the net.
Here's something: http://ingeb.org/valerius.html

I hope some of these things match with your memories,
and if not there are more ways to found out everything about your 'new' past life :)

Curious Girl.
 
Thank you for those pages, Anaxagoras, they're very interesting! My best friend and I went to see the Mary Rose last year, the exhibits and the ship fascinated us very much but didn't bring forth any memories.
But no, I wasn't in the Dutch navy, I was a musketeer and maybe a sharpshooter, and I think I fought on horseback once or twice as well. (I was a British sailor in the Napoleonic Wars, though.)

Dark Rosaleen, I haven't yet been able to figure out my connection to the Witte Leeuw because I haven't had time yet, but will try to do so. It may be as you said, that someone told me that I was born in the year the Witte Leeuw was lost...

But I also like Curious Girl's idea that the "Witte Leeuw" may have been the name of an inn - that was something I wondered about as well. It does sound good, but I'll have to meditate on that! (But not tonight, all that would happen would be that I fell asleep ;) )
I'll have a look at the song pages you gave, too - thank you!

What's funny is that I've always been fascinated by the Geuse song "Slaet op den trommele" ("Beat the Drum") since I found it quoted in a book as a child and I made up a tune for it. A few months ago I ordered a CD with songs from the Eighty Years' War (Camerata Trajectina's "Vrede van Munster") without looking at the track list, and nearly fell off my chair when I discovered that the song was on it. Of course, the tune I made up for the song as a child was the same as the original one...
 
Hi Reynardine,

I'm curious to know if you've discovered anything more about your connection to "Witte Leeuw" since your last post?

Have you had any other flashes or insights about this life?

Ailish :)
 
Hello Ailish,

Funny that you're bringing this old thread back up again ;)

I think my friend Jasper (my best friend through several lives) and I both took part in a battle at a place called Calloy (now Kallo) on the Schelde. I found a song on the CD called "Den Geusen Haes-Op Uyt Calloy" ("The Geuses' Flight from Calloy"), and the name of the place Calloy sent shivers down my spine and made me want to go and visit that place. I didn't bother to read the liner notes the first few times, then I finally looked up what they said about the song...there was a battle in 1637 (which would be in my "time frame"), which the Dutch apparently lost.
I didn't speak about that to Jasper's present incarnation, since she finds the idea of reincarnation extremely scary and doesn't want to speak about it, but I copied the CD and gave it to her, and guess which song she said she likes best?

I think my first name was Adriaen, my surname may have been Pauwels, and my mind keeps insisting my "middle name" was Brandiszoon. Having such a kind of "middle name" meaning "son of..." was quite common back then, I think - correct me if I'm wrong, Eevee and curious_girl! ;)

I haven't tried to do more research about that lifetime, but when I was thinking of it I couldn't help finding it funny that I teach Spanish today, when I spent several years of that lifetime shooting at Spaniards...

When Jasper's present incarnation and I went hiking in a fen/national park near here, I really stopped in my tracks once because the landscape resembled the one I was hanged in so much, except the trees were gnarled oaks there...the marshy bits in the Netherlands probably looked like that 400 years ago :)

Ah, before I forget - I have the feeling I may have been Dutch and not Flemish ;)venn.jpg
 
Hi Reynardine,

Wow! Thanks for the update! I always enjoy hearing about your experiences. They always have such a beautiful clarity to them. ;)

but I copied the CD and gave it to her, and guess which song she said she likes best?
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Now that's awesome! It's wonderful that Jasper's been with you through many lives -- and you are together again. It just goes to show you that roles change, but bonds aren't diminshed at all. :)

I believe it's quite possible you had a middle name at that time -- I've been doing genealogy research in and around Belgium, and it seems like all of my ancestors have a middle name.

That photo is amazing -- I had to just stop and stare at it for a few minutes. I just LOVE when I have a memory -- a visual in my mind -- and I see something/someplace that matches up to it. Seeing that scenery must have brought out some pretty intense feelings and emotions for you! :D

Ailish
 
Hi Ailish,

Thanks for the kind words, I'm blushing now! :)

It's nice that you can confirm the bit about the middle name...what puzzles me is that "Brandis" is a German surname, and the usual middle name was formed after the father's first name, like Janszoon or Harmenszoon. Well, if my lone brain cell keeps insisting that was my middle name, so be it ;)

Oh yes, seeing that scenery did bring up some intense emotions, especially embarrassment - my last conscious thought was "I wish I could stop kicking, that must look pretty stupid!". I didn't feel any pain or fear, I was sort of seeing things from outside, as if all this was happening to someone else, and it really annoyed me that I couldn't keep my feet and legs still...Well, so much for "famous last words"! ;)

Now that it has rained at last the fen should be open for hikers again (they closed it because they were afraid the dry peat would catch fire, and then the proverbial substance would really have hit the fan), and I'm thinking of going there again and take a few more pictures :) As you said, it's absolutely amazing to see a place that looks like one you remember from a previous life!
 
Oh yes, seeing that scenery did bring up some intense emotions, especially embarrassment - my last conscious thought was "I wish I could stop kicking, that must look pretty stupid!". I didn't feel any pain or fear, I was sort of seeing things from outside, as if all this was happening to someone else, and it really annoyed me that I couldn't keep my feet and legs still...Well, so much for "famous last words"!
Click to expand...

What an interesting memory! Funny how your last thoughts weren't of someone you'd miss, or a deep regret for something left unfinished -- but of how you looked! ;)

I'm fascinated to know -- if the next time you visit the park, anything else is triggered. Please keep us informed! :D

Ailish
 
I agree, that's a pretty strange thought...but I thought the very oddness of it could be a kind of proof that I didn't make it up ;) I don't think I had much of a family in that life, at least I can't remember one. Maybe they were all dead at that time...
 
Just a quick reply.
You could Google for "Land van Waas" (or perhaps Waes) to see what the area looks like today.
But I assume it flat grassland.
And also take a look at the town Sint Niklaas, to see if it's familiar.
It's South of Antwerp.

I've been pondering upon the name Brandiszoon and similar names,
but I can't think of any other variations.
I thought that Brandt was maybe a first name.
But I'm not sure.
Rembrandt is actually a very strange name now I think about it :D
I'm not fully awake now and I still have a million things to do,
when I know more I let you know :)

O yes, perhaps this site helps.
It's in Dutch, but it got some nice pic as well :)

Curious Girl.
 
Thank you for your reply, advice and the link! I'll look at it later, right now my brain is all mushy from the translation work I'm doing ;)

I think you may be right about Brandt being a first name, and they stuck in the 'i' for a better pronunciation or something like that (what our Latin teacher would have called a "grease vowel" :) ). Maybe Brandt as a first name could be a variation of Bernd/Bernhard/Barent...I'll see if I can find out more about that!

I did a picture search for "Land van Waas", but all that came up were photos of cultivated polder land, fields and so on. The landscape I remember was all marshy and not used for farming, though there may have been a few sheep and perhaps cows around. Of course, they probably drained the land in later centuries and turned it into fields -that has happened around here, too.
"Flat grassland" is a good description of what I remember, there really weren't many trees around. I hope it took them a good long while to find one that was suitable for disposing of me ;)
 
Reynardine said:
I did a picture search for "Land van Waas", but all that came up were photos of cultivated polder land, fields and so on. The landscape I remember was all marshy and not used for farming, though there may have been a few sheep and perhaps cows around. Of course, they probably drained the land in later centuries and turned it into fields -that has happened around here, too.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course, they drained almost everything the last 400 years,
it's hard to find any marsh lands here.
At least not in Holland, I don't know about Belgium.

And you could take a look at this site for all sorts of Dutch names.
(Familienamen & Voornamen)

That was all the inspiration for now ;)

Curious Girl.
 
Yay! Thank you for that site, Curious Girl, you're the best! I did find "Brand" on that website, and it said it was an abbreviation of Hildebrand. It says the name was usually used in Friesland, but maybe my father was from there, who knows...or his parents just had a soft spot for exotic names ;) (The site also had an explanation for the name Rembrandt, by the way...it only finds it when you do a search for Rembrand. You're right, it IS an odd name! :) )

Unfortunately, none of the photos of Sint Niklaas I found looked familiar, but maybe they're too modern. I didn't grow up in a city anyway, but in a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere. The inn was next to it (to the right if you faced the door), but it wasn't a village inn, more like a waystation for travellers. The innkeeper was a woman of about 30 named something like Anneke; she wasn't pretty in a feminine way, but rather good-looking in an androgynous way (if that makes sense). She always seemed sad, though she was very kind to my brother and me. Hmm, maybe it was her inn that was called "De Witte Leeuw", and she lost her husband or fiancee when the ship sank and thus named the inn after the ship...I'll have to think about that!

Thanks everybody, discussing those things with you really is helpful!
 
After a long time, another update! I was writing emails on an entirely different subject when the words "De Spaanse Brabander" popped into my head. They immediately seemed familiar, so I googled and found out that it was the title of a satirical play by G.A. Bredero, written around 1618. I must have seen that in my Dutch life, or heard about it; I really liked the sound of the words when they came into my head, so I probably enjoyed the play. I wish my Dutch were better so I could try and find a copy and read it...I guess it's a lot harder to read than "Gilles de Geus" :) (I only discovered that comic series when I started researching the Geuses, and enjoy it very much, as it's hilarious. Too bad it never was translated to English!)


Just thought I'd share that; there are no further memories from this life so far. Thanks for reading!
 
Here's an online copy in 17th century Dutch: click


But there are so many foot notes, it's not really fun to read.


And what about this: click


Bredero has a great sense of humour, so you probably like the way he writes.


I guess this play is inspired on the Flemish way of life.


I even think that "Brabant" stands for Flemish Brabant.


But I'm not 100% sure.


Enjoy :)


Curious Girl.
 
:thumbsup: You always have since interesting validations with foreign words - awesome! Thanks for sharing the update with us!
 
Hey, thank you, Curious Girl! Looks as if I'll have to buy another book! ;) Well, if I don't understand something I can still use the annotated version you linked to, but I hate reading something with lots of footnotes as well. I had a copy of "Don Quixote" like that, but the footnotes annoyed me so much that I switched to a version without. I think I can live with not understanding some things :) It's funny that he's called Jerolimo - I called my rabbit Hieronymo because I liked the name very much! He's not a Spanish Brabanter, but he's a "mixed breed", too. :D (I've read that the Spanish Brabanter is half Flemish and half Spanish on one of the websites I found.)


Haha, I still can't get over the thought that I fought the Spaniard in that life, and now make part of my living translating for Spaniards and teaching Spanish - maybe that's my form of atonement! If it is, I'm glad about that, as I'm definitely not proud of killing people...


Aili, thank you for your comment, too! It's funny when you have words popping into your mind like that, and nice when you find validations for them. I'll have to listen to more of the wonderful Renaissance Dutch and Flemish music Curious Girl recommended to me a while ago, and see if anything else comes up!
 
Haha, I still can't get over the thought that I fought the Spaniard in that life, and now make part of my living translating for Spaniards and teaching Spanish - maybe that's my form of atonement!
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That's your karma, to serve the Spaniards in this life :D But seriously, did you already found out why you're having these memories, do you see a pattern (linked to this life), a deeper meaning?


I was flooded by memories first, for several years. I had no idea what to do with them, and only recently I start to see patterns. And a lot of instant attractions are linked to the fun memories. The things I liked and loved.


I always wanted to know why I was born in Holland and not in Germany in this life. (Because they swapped our souls in heaven? ;) ) I had a dream that answered my question: if I were born in Germany, it would have been in (former) Eastern Germany, and I would have been busy half of my life fighting the system and getting out of there. I had too many lives like that, in this life it's time to get real and to face the (karmic) facts. And of course this took me ages :rolleyes:


I also found out that my longing for home (somewhere in Germany) is a longing from at least 300 years old.


I read about those times and I'm sure that I won't fit into a society like that. But still...I wouldn't mind to own a little house in the country, just like in the good old days :)


Curious Girl.
 
Hehehe, yes, I definitely serve them now! :) The funny thing is, my Elizabethan life was the life immediately before the Geus one, and in that I was married with a Spanish woman. But she was a Jew, and so she was quite the opposite of the people I fought. All Spaniards weren't the same ;)


As for a reason why I remember all this - I have no idea, sorry! I've thought about that for a long time, but I can see no pattern or reason why I should remember that. Maybe it's obvious, and I only don't see it, though, who knows...


Yes, it sounds as if they swapped our souls in heaven. Maybe the post-it notes with our respective destinations fell off, and someone pasted them back on in a hurry ;)


That's interesting that you had to be born in Holland and not in Germany, so you'd have time to resolve some karmic issues! Maybe that was why I was born in Germany, too, even though I feel like a mixture of English and Dutch that should be male instead of female as well. That took me a long time to resolve, but I suppose there was a sense in it as well. Only I don't know it :(


Ha, so you have a 300-year-old longing as well? So have I, only mine is even a century older. Whenever I leave England, I feel sad even though I know I'll return soon, for the next holiday. I have the feeling I should live here, though, maybe so I can teach more Germans Spanish - it's rather popular here at the moment ;) I haven't been to Holland or Flanders in ages, even though it's next door, shame on me; I must really go there again sometime, and see if it brings up new memories! I used to love going to Damme when I was a child, somehow I feel right at home here. And I'm sure there are lots of other interesting places to visit. I liked the Ijsselmeer, too, though a little nagging voice always insists the name on the map is wrong, it's called the Zuiderzee! Silly road atlas! :D
 
I'm usually really good with names, but not when it comes to past lives. I don't know why that is. Perhaps because I've never had a proper regression. I do have names that pop into mind sometimes - like in my Swedish pl, but annoyingly these are names like e.g. Anna that is probably the most common girl name in Sweden, which makes research ridiculous :rolleyes: :)


I'm really quite fascinating with people like you Nathali, that gets names or words (or in this case a title) that can be validated. It must be a great help in searching for validations.
 
Yes, Sunniva, that's very nice to "hear" such clear, distinctive words and phrases from time to time, it really helps with validation! How annoying when you only get very common names; I'm glad my parents didn't name me Jan in that life, but went for something more unusual :) But even in spite of that rather unusual name I haven't been able to find any traces of an Adriaen Brandiszoon Pauwels (or something similar), doesn't matter, though. Maybe the documents in question were all gone, maybe someone had a nice little bonfire or two when the Spaniards finally left. I missed that by about five years, but one of my closest friends with whom I've been fortunate enough to share many lifetimes was present when the Peace of Münster was signed that put an end to the Eighty Years' War, at least more or less. We apparently didn't meet in that lifetime, but I suppose that also counts, in a way ;)
 
Oh, that blind spot thing is something I know very well, too! Sometimes things are right in front of my face, but I simply don't see them. It's good to know that it happens to other people, too! ;)


As you said, maybe living in a country you don't feel attached to helps sort out the karmic stuff, and of course there's still some Sehnsucht, a longing for another place. For me, it has also become better now that I know about my past lives and have done some research on them, but, as you said, it probably never leaves completely.


I'm so glad that your past life issues and pain are resolving now! It must have been rather difficult, but I'm happy that you're coming to terms with everything.

It's strange isn't it, that you feel half English and Dutch and that I feel half German:tongue:
So soon you'll be teaching Spanish to the English and I teach the Germans Dutch.


Then we've paid our karmic debts : angel
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Hehehe, yes - that sounds as if it could be fun!


Thank you again for sending those links, I'll order the Spaanse Brabander directly. All I need then will be a little time, I wonder where I can order that :tongue:
 
Oh I definitely agree with all of that. I've never felt that Denmark is my 'real' home. Not that I feel uncomfortable here, but I just feel so much more comfortable in Holland and Germany. And Sweden too for that matter (I'm going there on a daytrip tomorrow, nothing pl related though, but it will be really nice : angel).


It's an interesting thought that not feeling attached to your birth country is a way of sorting out something karmic. I'll spend some time thinking about that.


And I absolutely love the word 'sehnsucht' - it's so beautiful! :)
 
Haha, welcome to the club, Sunniva! ;) It really is a funny thing, those longings we have without realising why we have them...


It's interesting that you also have a longing for Holland and Germany; do you have any memories to go with that? Oh, and have fun in Sweden!


Yes, "Sehnsucht" is a nice word, and a very appropriate one. If only German had more nice words like that ;)


There, there, it's alright, Curious Girl, everything will be fine :) Now I want to travel, too, guess that's only the right punishment for me, teasing you like that! :)
 
Nathali, I believe I lived in Germany, just on the border of Holland, in the 1500's (I went to England at the age of 24 though and lived the rest of my life there). I think I may have had an earlier past life in Germany or Holland as well. I'm really obsessed with gothic architecture of the area. The Kölner Dom gives me shivers :rolleyes: :) I haven't look much into that yet though.


Oh, and the Danish word for 'Sehnsucht' is 'Laengsel', which is also a pretty word (one of the few) :)
 
That's interesting, Marie! Funny how we all seem to have lived in the same area at more or less the same time, isn't it? If you need me to get any info about Köln, let me know; if you want to know whether the dialect spoken there sounds familiar, I can find you some sound samples as well. One of my favourite ones is a part of "Star Wars" where Darth Vader speaks "Kölsch". That's hilarious! ;)


Do you know when exactly you had that life in Holland, where you moved to England at the age of 24?`Just curious!


Yes, "Laengsel" is a very pretty word, too!
 
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