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Extremely evil people in life?

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KennethNYC

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Will they be allowed to reincarnate eventually, what will happen to them once they die.

I'm talking about serial killers, people like Hitler or Stalin. Or other people that caused much greater harm during life then an average person is capable of.
 
Hi Kenneth,


I don't think it's a question of being 'allowed' to reincarnate again, it's just a natural process for us all.


For serial killers, or infamous historical figures like Hitler, Stalin etc., remember that it was just one incarnation in a long history of hundreds, maybe even thousands of incarnations for that individual soul.


I believe that we've all done terrible things in some of our past lives, as often as we've done good things. I don't believe that the soul is entirely responsible for the actions of the body that it inhabits, rather the body is more like a 'vehicle' that is 'steered' by the soul. Sometimes the vehicle can become 'defective' through no fault of the 'driver' if that makes sense?


But we all learn from the good and the bad things that we do, whether we are the victim, or the perpetrator, the whole purpose to our existence in physical form is to learn and gain experience of every facet of life.....good or bad.


Chris - :)
 
Hi Kenneth,


I believe Chris is correct, it's not a matter of people being 'allowed' to incarnate, any more than it is a matter of the sun being 'allowed' to rise - it just does. It's just what happens. It's nature. There's no stopping it if we are going to operate within the basic physcial laws of our Universe.


There may or may not be any divine intervention in this process whatsoever, for all we know - or at least no more nor less than there is in any other natural process. Certainly, in my view, there is no Cosmic Santa rating people as to the 'naughtiness' or 'niceness' of their behaviour on Earth or throwing certain individuals in the 'evil' bin for all eternity. I believe that sort of thinking is fantastical and unrealistic, although I know it is popular with some people. I believe we are utlimately responsible for ourselves and our own behaviour (karma) and the sooner we realise that the better for all mankind.


I personally don't like to talk about 'really evil' people. I prefer terms like 'really badly behaved' people. I think we can get into a very distracting discussion of 'good' and 'evil' which, while they may be forces of nature, just as 'light' and 'dark' are, essentially people have free will, and can (and do) exercise it accordingly. People either behave 'well' - in a way which is beneficial and constructive to themselves or others, or they behave 'badly' - in a way which is not. It's up to them in the long run.


Even people like Hitler and Stalin believed in what they were doing at the time (in their own twisted way) and thought it was for the benefit of mankind or at least their own countrymen. Even people who are violently, mentally ill, such as serial killers (which is an extremely rare phenomenon by the way, despite the number of movies on the theme) are doing their best - such as it is. I read an article a while back by a woman who was doing a study on repeat violent offenders on death row - the 'worst of the worst'. She found that almost all of them had suffered a combination of childhood abuse from an early age and a serious head trauma usually before age 3. So who is evil and who was just born into the 'wrong' family?


It is up to society to moderate the behaviour of our brothers and sisters if it becomes destructive and to set standards for what is and is not acceptable behaviour at any given time. In a civil society we have laws to protect the vulnerable from the violent or deranged. What we classify as 'evil' tends to change from one century and one culture to the next of course. We don't think it's OK to feed people to lions any more for amusement do we? Capital punishment and torture are going more and more out of style nowadays. These things have been done in the past, not by insane or 'evil' individuals (necessarily) but by authorised representatives of the people, even though they will one day (hopefully) probably be considered unspeakably barbaric and cruel.


It is up to members of society to provide help, support, care and so on to those who are mentally ill and to put in place political safeguards to prevent power hungry madmen from rising to office (or staying there if they do manage to slip through).


Slowly we learn. Slowly things get better.
 
I personally tend to beleive that there is "an" evil, and that is part of God's plan. I beleive this evil does not have the control we can have. I believe this shows and reflects in us that we do not have total control over our karma, and that we must put our mind and heart to faith in God.


I base my beleif on my memories of having been with someone who did unspeakable evil things and this person had not changed at all from the time of Atlantis until the other life I was with them in world war II,.They were involved in the very same thing in both times. They had not learned one iota, and I think this person does not have the usual soul journey as the rest of us. I have no idea how their "karma" works. It would be different as it is not based on the heart of our soul, which is what is the propelling force to reincarnate.


Other souls who I have shared lives with and who have hurt me have progressed. THey have used their heart to change. I beleive that as evil does exist , it is something to always be aware of and to fight against, and through this I am growing in love.


soulfreindly
 
Hi Kenneth,


I also agree with Chris & Tanguerra that reincarnation is a natural process - and just happens.


I don't believe any one soul is born "evil," but that we all have choices due to our free will. One small action can have a ripple effect of consequences - and again, it is our choice how our actions and reactions further determine which way we are heading.


You might be interested in the following threads:


Thoughts on evil and free will


Good vs. evil incarnations


Aili
 
Yes, indeed, just a follow on thought...


There is a certain tendency to blame God (however you conceive Her) when things go wrong - such as in the case of disease, war, famine and so forth and far too little emphasis on people collectively taking better care of each other, sharing their resources and generally being more cooperative. There is also a tendency to talk about 'evil' when people are cruel, selfish or heartless, as if it's nobody's fault and is 'just one of those things'. But 'love one another' is the simple and central teaching not just in Christianity, but fundamental to most belief systems. It's not God (however you conceive Her) getting into all this mischief. It's people.


I think this is an extension of the 'magical' thinking that takes away a certain sense of responsibility from individuals and puts the cause of it 'out there somewhere'. Perhaps once upon a time this fatalistic attitude towards misfortune was understandable, but nowadays, we can probably do a bit better than that if we try. We certainly can't control everything in life and would drive ourselves mad trying, but I think we should step up and be accountable for the things we can control - such as our own behaviour.


This is not to say that some people don't behave really, really wickedly soulfrieindly. Of course, they do. I have heard others talking about some characteristics between Atlantis and Nazi Germany being eerily similiar, and some of the same people reemerged for that matter. It makes you wonder why these patterns persist if we're supposed to be all continuously improving. Is it part of a larger plan? I don't know the answer to that. Certainly the Hitlers, Ghegis Khans, Stalins, Idi Amins and Pol Pots and various other notoriously wrongheaded and cruel politicians rose up on the shoulders of the willing 'people' at least in the first instance. They were all also, eventually defeated by the actions of 'people'. Acting as agents of a greater good, or simply as people of feeling and courage? Maybe both?


In terms of 'what will happen to them when they die' - it seems that the same thing happens to them as to everybody else and it is a fairly personalised experience. I read a book a while ago - a true story - (I can't remember the name of it, but someone else may know it) by a man who used to be an army sniper and an assassin for 'secret ops' and so on. He was a really 'bad' guy, and had killed many, many people and never turned a hair about it. One day he was hit by lightning (yes really - talk about a "bolt from the blue") and had an extensive 'near death experience' in which he recalled that he was shown by the 'Masters' on the 'other side' the extent of the misery he had caused through his wicked ways. He was made to feel just how much unhappiness, pain and sorrow he had caused and it wasn't a very pleasant thing. It was really brought home to him the damage he had done. He was told it was not his time to die yet and was sent back, but with a profound sense that he ought to change and do something a bit more productive with his life from now on. Needless to say, he turned over a completely new leaf after that experience.
 
KennethNYC said:
Will they be allowed to reincarnate eventually, what will happen to them once they die.
I'm talking about serial killers, people like Hitler or Stalin. Or other people that caused much greater harm during life then an average person is capable of.
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Hi Kenneth:


I believe reincarnation is the soul's progression of lessons through each lifetime. We do not always remember all of our past lives, and some people never remember any, so how can we be sure that we did not do despicable things in a past life? I could have been a serial killer, or you could have been a ruler who killed millions just for the sake of killing. We are here.


i think it is up to the soul to decide whether or not they will reincarnate. And, I do not think any offense is so bad that a person cannot reincarnate and make soul changes in the next life.
 
Kenneth: I read your question and the responses thereto and, while I am no expert, I think I can say the following. The question you ask has been asked countless times since the beginning of human history (and probably before). Basically it asks ‘is this a just universe, and if so, how and why does evil happen?’ While the question has been around for countless years, it poses an especially strong ‘problem’ when one is coming from a traditional Judeo-Christian-Islamic worldview where there is an omnipotent divine being who is ‘good.’ Adherents to those religious views have offered answers to the question which may or may not be satisfactory. I’ll let them speak for themselves. What I will say is that those that accept reincarnation come in many stripes and flavors. Some see the presence of a divine entity guiding the process while others see reincarnation as a purely ‘natural process.’ Many, like myself fall somewhere in between accepting a divine, but not an entity that is dictating and/or allowing each and every act of mankind. In this world view the question of ‘evil,’ is less polemic. That is not to minimize the evilness of the acts about which you speak, but it is to say that as much as I wish it were not so, those evil acts are part of the human experience, and just as we can all agree that people like Hitler have been and can be born once, there is no reason to assume that they can not be reborn. It is my hope (without evidence) that when souls like Hitler evaluate what they have done that they understand the horror of their acts and commit themselves to future lives of service.
 
Quite right Alex. Well said.

It is my hope (without evidence) that when souls like Hitler evaluate what they have done that they understand the horror of their acts and commit themselves to future lives of service.
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Actually, there are one or two people who have participated in the forum over the years who got up to all sorts of mischief in previous lives. They don't consider themselves to have been 'punished' in any way for their 'crimes' however, by God or any other entity.


Mostly though, they have gone on to behave much better in their current lives - partly because of the horror of remembering what they got up to and the wish not to repeat the same mistakes!
 
Great thread.


With regards to the purpose of reincarnation, I tend to favour the Buddhist perspective in that life in this physical world is a test for the soul. To that end, the purpose is to work out your karma and learn important lessons that elevate the soul. The whole point then is to not have to reincarnate. Reincarnation indicates the soul has not learned all the lessons it needs to enlighten itself, which means it has to come back to this world for another chance. It's a bit like having to repeat a year at school or university. I've read up a lot on near death experiences and they seem to confirm this view somewhat.


So, your Hitlers and Albert Fishes of the world (for example) do eventually reincarnate having worked out their negative karma in a sort of "hell" first. To append what Tanguerra was talking about, when people like this die and they are subject to the life review/mirror of karma (what's known as one's life flashing before their eyes), they realise that in truth, we are all connected, and so the horror of what they have done to others will be the cause of their own hell. So, what people like this have done to others, they have really done to themselves and during their "reviews", they'll experience everything they have done as well as the consequences it has wrought and will realise they've effectively wasted a lifetime. The pain of such, emotionally as well as physically almost doesn't bear thinking about.


To me, this is the only way that reincarnation really makes sense but as another poster has pointed out, the state of the world at large would seem to suggest that generally, we haven't learnt a thing, so who knows?? :S
 
Susie said:
Hi Kenneth:
I believe reincarnation is the soul's progression of lessons through each lifetime. We do not always remember all of our past lives, and some people never remember any, so how can we be sure that we did not do despicable things in a past life? I could have been a serial killer, or you could have been a ruler who killed millions just for the sake of killing. We are here.


i think it is up to the soul to decide whether or not they will reincarnate. And, I do not think any offense is so bad that a person cannot reincarnate and make soul changes in the next life.
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I was just going to say the same thing as Susie. I've read and I believe that people choose the lessons they need to learn in the life they are taking on this time around. It's the way the soul evolves and grows. Life lessons and all that. Some people come back and keep making the same mistakes, sort of like the groundhog's day movie, and will have to keep on going until they "get it right" so to speak.


Hitler may now be back as the next pope or something. You just never know.
 
Starchild said:
Hitler may now be back as the next pope or something.
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Or maybe he is just a lonely old man who saves a single child from drowning by calling for help - and so redeems universal consciousness all over again.


:o
 
The responsibility for misdeeds


True, that there are some, who are responsible for millions of deaths, but Hitler and the others were not sufficient to perform these misdeeds. They could do that, because they had power, and lots of people believing them.


I think there are plenty of people, who would do the same if they had absolute power, and don't forget, how chaotic Germany was just after WW I. He wouldn't have chance for killing millions if circumstances had been calm and quiet. And if he hadn't become the Führer, someone else would have done the same in his position. Responsibility is great, but this responsibility is shared amongst many, and not only the one at the top.


Any thoughts on this?


Skarphedinn
 
That's a good question, because I've read about the ability to control what a crowd will do. How people in a crowd get caught up in the moment and do things they wouldn't normally do, like riots etc...And I've read how Hitler's armies just did as they were told, in mass numbers. There's psychology about that. And there's also free choice, free will. I like this question. :thumbsup:
 
Oh yes, I think it is definitely a very good question.


I do not believe that a single person can carry out such horrors on their own. Like Alaskan said, I think in Hitler's case, propaganda and mass psychology were major tools in the whole process, they were used as means to achieve certain goals, and Hitler was the head figure in it for sure.


The drive behind it, the decisions that were made were not the work of a single man.


IMO there were plenty of people around him that took advantage of the circumstances to give free course to their own twisted designs - and all that concurred to define the Holocaust.


I also think that it is fair to say that those same people were themselves influenced by the circumstances - the world had all gone mad, I guess. :(


May all of these souls - the victims' and the perpretators' - find their paths to enlightment!
 
"Extremely evil people" do reincarnate


Every so often the subject of Hitler comes up, and people theorize about what he must be up to...


Some years ago, in a pseudo-Bavarian village, what must be one of the most bizarre reunions ever was held, thanks to CPL. Because of the existence of this site, a number of people who recall past lives during the Third Reich, were able to find each other. Most of us knew each other then.


Among the people who gathered there were people who remember being Goebbels, the former propaganda minister, and Eva Braun, Hitler's mistress-both of whom still look exactly like they did back then. And a man with piercing blue eyes who cheerfully informed me that he'd voted for the socialist worker's party in the last election.


If people only knew who was sitting in the beer garden, or going for a nature walk among them, they might have wondered about the nature of reality. And about the nature of good and evil.


I know I did.


Phoenix
 
I've met not just one but several people who have Hitler's memories -- including ones that proved accurate when they researched the data. Their memories of Hitler's life and thoughts match up closely. There's also a woman in Austria with a startlingly identical art style.


They live in different countries and are of different races. Three are non-white. One is a Communist, one is a paleoconservative, one is a Latin American conservative, and one is an anarchist.


My theory about Hitler is that he was a nexus personality -- a centre through which flowed many streams of consciousness. There are likely many copies of his memes (mental information patterns) floating around by now.


Fortunately, given their differences of belief, it's unlikely that Hitler's clones will ever reunite to take over the world.
 
My comment... Mengele who perpetuated massive pain on many during his presence in Auschwitz was responsible for the very same experiments in the time of Atlantis.. according to my memories ...


Not much changed with him over those hundreds of years. I would think that that could well show a lack of soul? ..


Soulfreindly
 
Etheleona said:
My theory about Hitler is that he was a nexus personality -- a centre through which flowed many streams of consciousness. There are likely many copies of his memes (mental information patterns) floating around by now.
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This is a new way of expressing an old concept, which is sometimes known as "Cleopatra Syndrome". The archetypal mental patient who believes they were Napoleon in a past life is something that shows up in old movies from time to time. This is also reflected in the Battle of the Marilyn Monroes that took place a couple of years ago on the Shirley Maclaine reincarnation forum. There are quite a few of them, just as at some point, there will be a lot of Princess Diana claimants.


I find it interesting that only in the case of famous people where there are going to be multiple claimants because of their fame, do people theorize that reincarnation is not one-to-one, but one-to-many.


Personally, I think that type of theory is reverse engineering in order to avoid the issue of "will the real X please stand up", allowing everyone who thinks they were X to be right.


Phoenix
 
Actually, theories of parallel or multiple lives apply to nonfamous ones, too, and there are people with memories of such lives. The famous ones just get more attention, as they generally do. And, as I've said, some multiple claimants do have valid memories, including obscure ones which they likely could not have acquired from public sources like newspaper or radio.


But... relating this to the issue of good and evil:


If people can acquire copies of the memories, traits and other mental patterns of some dead person, then it doesn't matter where or how they got these things, but what they do with them. Even Hitler had a few useful abilities, like art and oratory. If some people now possess these consciousness patterns and are using them for better purposes than he did -- more power to them.
 
If people only knew who was sitting in the beer garden, or going for a nature walk among them, they might have wondered about the nature of reality. And about the nature of good and evil.
I know I did.
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Tee hee Phoenix! :)
I think there is a simpler solution to the 'Spartacus syndrome' let's call it (No! I'm Cleopatra! :laugh:) where several people claim to be the same (famous, they're usually famous) person.


Perhaps they really are the same person at some level, but perhaps not. Let's not start carving up the space-time continuum until we have looked under the brick on the front step for the key to the mystery.


Some people can misunderstand their past life memory experiences. There are some people, say, who might be interested in Naziism for some reason. They 'just like it' and watch a lot of movies and documentaries and read books about it all. They might not approve of it in any way, but they are somehow fascinated. They may even have certain de ja vu moments and dreams about specific events during the war. These are strong clues that they may have had a past life in WWII, possibly in Germany. It does not indicate that they were Hitler. They may even have memories of being at one of his rallies, and seeing all the zeigheiling crowd stretched out below. This means they may have been part of Hitler's entourage, but not necessarily the Fuhrer himself... and so on...


Famous people in their nature are charismatic and know many, many people. There was someone who wrote in to the forum a while ago wondering if she might have been Anne Boelyn. She certainly had many very vivid and detailed memories of King Henry's court and so on. After some discussion and a few meditation tips, she began to get more memories and more detailed memories and wrote them down. Then one time she could remember looking at the Queen and realised she had been a Lady-in-Waiting, and so had witnessed many private and public events, which had given her the impression she might have been the Queen...This in itself was quite fascinating. She wasn't disappointed, she was relieved in a way.


If people don't really understand the techniques and a few basics about past life memories, it would be easy to get their ideas scrambled.


As for the fighting Marilyns, :) I would love to see an experiment where they could all be hypnotised by Helen Wambach or some other eminent expert and regressed properly to get to the bottom of who was the real Monroe. The others may well have known each other and shared that life with her, been her friends, colleagues, hairdressers...perhaps? Why not? It would make a lovely reunion if it worked out that way. After all, why are they all so 'interested' in Marilyn?


At least we could rule that out before we start messing with space-time and reality dimensions...not that that wouldn't be fun. :)
 
Hi Tanguerra.. I was that "she":cool


I was a daughter of a lady in waiting.. just showing how impressionable some traumatic event can be on children ---


This " memory" reflected my recurring pattern around men and being overpowered by men , since that last 2000 years.. I can see where the pattern started.. and was thus very impressionable to Henry's awful power over the women in his life. I will elaborate the details later..


soulfreindly
 
tanguerra said:
As for the fighting Marilyns, :) I would love to see an experiment where they could all be hypnotised by Helen Wambach or some other eminent expert and regressed properly to get to the bottom of who was the real Monroe.
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According to Walter Semkiw, who has set himself up in business as the arbiter of famous past life claims, Sherry Lee Laird is the reincarnation of Marilyn Monroe.


Although you have to take his validations with a large grain of salt (or maybe a block of salt). He doesn't use methods that are even remotely scientific, or even credible.Instead he has Kevin Ryerson channel a long-dead Atlantean and asks Atun Re whether or not person X was famous person Y in a past life.


Is it any wonder that the scientific community doesn't take reincarnation seriously?


Phoenix
 
Oh yes, soulfriendly. You had an 'Ann Boelyn' story too. I was thinking of a different one from some years back, but it goes to show how easily this can happen even to people who understand it all reasonably well.

Phoenix said:
Is it any wonder that the scientific community doesn't take reincarnation seriously?
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Yes, indeed!


But to kind of get back on point, I don't know why this particular brand of 'wickedness' (Atlantis / Nazis / etc) seems to be so persistent in human society and why we have not evolved out of it. I don't think it is necessarily the same people behaving badly over and over again, although, of course, that does happen.


Then again, if you think about it, it's really not as bad as it once was. This is in part because we have things like good police forces and all sorts of rules and international courts to at least put some kind of cap on the behaviour of despots and war criminals.


Watching any TV of an evening would give you the impression that we are surrounded by serial killers and diabolical international conspiracies but really, in fact, we are not. These things are very much in the minority in reality. Watching the news can make you wonder if mankind is doomed sometimes, but I for one believe there is enough 'goodness' to outweigh the behaviour of a misguided few. At least I hope so.
 
Hi Tanguerra


I wonder if the Anne Bolyn reincarnate story was actually another person.?. My original avatar name was another name... If another person did have the very same story that would be amazing..
 
Yes, it was another person soulfriendly. She had some handle like QueenAB or similar. I can't find it now, although I looked for it. Perhaps it was archived?


Her story was not identical to yours. She remembered being a Lady-in-Waiting, not the daughter of one, for instance. It could be that you may have known each other, however slightly, back then though which is interesting.
 
Very interesting that someone else would have a similar experience to mine. ..


Pointing out maybe, that the theory that some people take on difficult lives is true.. If Anne Bolyn took on this life to signify the culturally strong abuse of women throughout alot of history, wouldn't that be heroic. Having had that strong feeling of connection to Anne gave me more impetus to take action to correct my negative self esteem concerning women. So maybe Anne represented this type and helped provide a turning point in history??


Pointing out that karmic debt would not be the only reason people end up in difficult lives as often is portrayed in reincarnation theories.. People who end up abused are not necessarily being the victim as a pay back , but may actually have this happen due to brave and heroic choices on their part.


.
 
Tanguerra said:
At least we could rule that out before we start messing with space-time and reality dimensions...not that that wouldn't be fun.
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I think we differ in methodology here. My purpose in exploring reincarnation is to expand my consciousness, to open up new horizons and possibilities. What a person believes is possible influences what she or he can experience. I regard beliefs as tools for shaping reality, and choose the ones that open the most doors for myself.
If on the other hand, you prefer to stay close to familiar assumptkions about reality and work outward from there, that is another possible method. If it works for you, great. There's room for more than one approach.

soulfriendly said:
Pointing out that karmic debt would not be the only reason people end up in difficult lives as often is portrayed in reincarnation theories.. People who end up abused are not necessarily being the victim as a pay back , but may actually have this happen due to brave and heroic choices on their part.
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Remember, soulfriendly, that you underwent and endured just as much hardship (if not more, considering your other lives) -- and that makes you just as heroic. Whatever the initial reasons for these choices may have been, you went all the way through with it. That may be one of the meanings of your dreams: that whether or not you were Anne Boleyn, you've faced and survived great challenges, and you're worthy of wearing a crown.
 
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