Evolution and Reincarnation

[Ehrenbreitstein]

Something I've been considering lately is how do evolution and reincarnation fit in together? I'm a firm proponent of the sciences, including evolution, but I also believe in more spiritual matters, such as reincarnation. This begs the question, at what point did we start inhabiting humanoid bodies? Did we start at the beginning as single-celled organisms without consciousness and evolve both physically and spiritually from there or was there a point in time when consciousness came to the fore and we started to inhabit bodies?

I consider animals, who arguably do not have the same level of consciousness as us; at some point in time, were we like animal spirits? If that is the case, will spirits who are animals now someday be able to inhabit higher life forms?

I'm not sure which section of the forum this belongs in. What are others' takes on this matter?

 

[AOSpare]

According to my studies...


Animals have a group soul, so when they die they return to this group soul (hive) and from it they can reincarnate. All things, rocks, flora/fauna have life essence - spirit. Once upon the time a dog or horse acted in a selfless manner (as they are known for) they have earned the "jump" to incarnate as human beings.


Darwin had left out the concept of "spiritual evolution" when he wrote his book...indeed the purpose of reincarnation is to facilitate this spiritual advancement. We cannot move forward unless we clean the slate, so to speak. We once were part of the whole, in our past, one with g-d in perfect harmony, our biblical Eden. Then for some bizarre reason we separated from g-d as part of our illusionary, mundane earthly life. Our desires, deeds and Self particularly inhibits the return of this Oneness. Our karma advances when we act selflessly and in love. Other desires will just set us back. So, yes. We do not reincarnate randomly or haphazardly. Each life is a lesson and if we do not catch on, we just repeat.

 

[John Tat]

ZeonChar


The question you ask cannot be answered, because there is no answer. Its the same as asking, if there was nothing before a god created heaven and earth how could he both exist in nothing and if he did exist then there was something that did existed within nothing


In my opinion its all about finding out your own truth. Who are you and were did you come from? Do not concern yourself about matters there are no answers to

 

[Ehrenbreitstein]

ZeonChar
The question you ask cannot be answered, because there is no answer. Its the same as asking, if there was nothing before a god created heaven and earth how could he both exist in nothing and if he did exist then there was something that did existed within nothing


In my opinion its all about finding out your own truth. Who are you and were did you come from? Do not concern yourself about matters there are no answers to

That's not really a good answer. I do not believe that it cannot be answered. There is always an answer whether we can understand it or not. Where would we humans be if we stopped asking questions to things we believed had no answer? Asking questions about our universe and the very nature of being is what makes us, us. I'm certainly not going to stick to only asking about myself when my horizon is so large. We wouldn't have great philosophers without people asking these types of questions. Some of the best discussions have no answer.

 

[AOSpare]

John,


These question have been answered already in various philosophies and esoteric schools. (just look at emanation theory) Whether you accept these as conjectures or possibilities is up to you. Frankly I do not care of others perception. If asked I offer mine with the caveat that there is no absolute truth except what you find reasonable or likely. I think all conjectures should offer some plausibility along with logic and congruence. I just cannot state some absurd idea and expect people to buy into them. Spiritual evolution is certainly congruent with our current understanding of human evolution and to some extend science.


-A

ZeonChar
The question you ask cannot be answered, because there is no answer. Its the same as asking, if there was nothing before a god created heaven and earth how could he both exist in nothing and if he did exist then there was something that did existed within nothing


In my opinion its all about finding out your own truth. Who are you and were did you come from? Do not concern yourself about matters there are no answers to

 

[dking777]

If that is the case, will spirits who are animals now someday be able to inhabit higher life forms?

Isn't homosapiens classified as an animal? How do we know that this isn't the opposite? How do we know that the dolphins are not spiritually superior to the human being - and the goal is to develop enough to have the privilege to incarnate in a superior life from in the body of a dolphin? According to some researchers - this is a possibility.

"For millennia, all kinds of authorities – from religion to eminent scholars – have been repeating the same idea ad nauseam, that humans are exceptional by virtue that they are the smartest in the animal kingdom," says Dr Arthur Saniotis, Visiting Research Fellow with the University's School of Medical Sciences.
"However, science tells us that animals can have cognitive faculties that are superior to human beings."


See: Humans not smarter than animals, just different, experts say

Just a thought anyway.


Sincerely,


DKing

 

[Eowyn]

I'm a firm proponent of the sciences, including evolution, but I also believe in more spiritual matters, such as reincarnation. This begs the question, at what point did we start inhabiting humanoid bodies? Did we start at the beginning as single-celled organisms without consciousness and evolve both physically and spiritually from there or was there a point in time when consciousness came to the fore and we started to inhabit bodies?

I'll state my own theory, but first I'd like to say, I love this reflection made by dking77:

Isn't homosapiens classified as an animal? How do we know that this isn't the opposite? How do we know that the dolphins are not spiritually superior to the human being - and the goal is to develop enough to have the privilege to incarnate in a superior life from in the body of a dolphin? According to some researchers - this is a possibility.

I think science is the way. And philosophy too. Recently I was regretting in one of my blogs it seems there's not philosophy anymore, we only have dogmas coming from science or religion, and I have the feeling it's no good if you dare to think by yourself. So for me the ideal would be the combination of science and philosophy, then maybe science would recover a lot of the spirituality that lost at some point in history.


This said, I'll add esoteric schools haven't answered anything. They only have hypothesis coming from different sources, just like the rest of us. No one can know for sure which the purpose of reincarnation is, and the concept of spiritual evolution is debatable too, as while we are here incarnated we only have a partial vision of the spiritual world. My personal view is that we all are the same when we return to our spiritual condition, hence we don't need to "evolve" towards perfection or anywhere else, as we are already "perfect" beings, meaning with this a wiser or more experienced soul isn't more "perfect" than a young or less experienced soul.


Though Darwin's evolution theory is widely accepted, we must not forget it is only an unproved theory. I think probably the truth is made of a combination of the evolution theory and "something else" we still have to uncover. Earthly beings are classiffied in different kingdoms: mineral, vegetable and animal, and there's a reason for it. I don't discard completely we could reincarnate in any of the three, but personally I think each kingdom needs different "kinds of souls/consciousness". The leap between vegetable and animal kingdoms (I'd say also between animal and human) needs something more than a random DNA mutation, no matter how many thousands of years of evolution we're talking about. Genetists say it's impossible that evolution took place as Darwin says in such a short time (if chronology is right). So, in my opinion, there would be souls intended to inhabit animal bodies, and souls intended to inhabit humanoid bodies. This doesn't make ones better than the others, they are just different, though the essence is the same.


I also admit human beings have a great animal part, that's undeniable, but there's something on us which makes us different. I don't know what it is, and science hasn't found where this difference lies yet. Of course we have things in common with animals, and like dking said, they clearly are "better" than us in many aspects (for example they are much better adapted and they don't commit themselves to destroy the place where they live), the same way we are "better" in other aspects. I also know that great apes, the ones we consider are in the highest places of animal evolution, are incredibly similar to human beings and of course we share 98% of the DNA. Still, I believe the main difference comes from something that resides in our souls: the certainty (though it can be more or less buried in our subconcious) of our immortality as spiritual beings.


Obviously, all this is open to discussion.

 

[Ehrenbreitstein]

Thanks to those who answered so far.


Not considering animals now or in the recent past, at some point we were all single-celled organisms and so I am referring to at what point did we start inhabiting bodies?

 

[Eowyn]

at some point we were all single-celled organisms

I'm not so sure about the "we" part. Physical beings on Earth (and surely anywhere else), yes. "Me", I could have existed as an immaterial being (soul) long before the existence of those beings, and start to incarnate when there was physical organisms where I could have the kind of experience I want to, why not? Why starting in such "simple" beings?


Do unicellular organisms have consciousness? That's one of the biggest mysteries of science, I have studied viruses in deep and I'm still fascinated by how they work, but saying they have some kind of "intelligence" would be quite risky. Our own cells behave in quite an "intelligent" way and that doesn't mean we have all these individual "tiny souls" living in our bodies (though the idea sounds fun). There are viruses which are almost as big as bacteria, and it's also complicated to define where the limit of what we consider "life" truly is.

 

[Tinkerman]

First let me say how pleased I am of those participating in this discussion, it is wonderfully reflective and very interesting. Thanks for posing the question ZeonChar.


My thoughts on the point in evolution where the soul "awakens" or inhabits the bag of bones we call a body has always centered around the biblical mythology of the Garden of Eden. Prior to the great transgression (what ever it was) the world was perfect. I wonder if, at the point of awakening, the concept we call soul didn't enter into primitive man in the advanced stages of evolution. Or if not "entered," was there all the time and part of the evolution was consciousness. Consciousness... awareness of self and environment... and ego were born. They "saw they were naked." I sometimes think that the whole Garden of Eden idea and the rest of the religious conjecture in all faiths weren't some form of archetypal history that is innate in the world. Perhaps from them we can see answers to questions like this... if our eyes are open enough.


Tman

 

[Ehrenbreitstein]

I agree with you Eowyn. By "we" I just meant life on Earth, not our souls or what makes us, us. I think we probably existed long before life on Earth and chose a point to enter into.

 

[Blackbird]

Intriguing thread... I'm reminded of the statement, "God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal, and awakens in man." attributed to Ibn al 'Arabi.


I recall hearing it phrased "... awakens in animals, and in man knows he is awake."

 

[AOSpare]

Sirius, the Dog star


My former teacher used to say that I was likely from Sirius, the Dog star...at that time I did not even know what he meant until I have researched it further.

I agree with you Eowyn. By "we" I just meant life on Earth, not our souls or what makes us, us. I think we probably existed long before life on Earth and chose a point to enter into.

 

[Tinkerman]

Intriguing thread... I'm reminded of the statement, "God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal, and awakens in man." attributed to Ibn al 'Arabi.

Wow Blackbird, I love this, it makes beautiful sense! I will look into the author.


Tman

 

[dking777]

I am reminded of a childhood story involving a tree that was planted in my Grandmothers front yard. As a child, I was convinced that the spirit of this tree was reincarnated from a 'past life.' It had been a part of the landscape I had lived in a past life and I had developed a 'relationship' and cared for it some how in a past life. I was just a toddler just out of diapers - and I went around and tried to convince my family that the 'tree' was a living 'being' and had a heart and soul - and was an old and dear friend to me - who had 'reincarnated' to spend time with me again. When I was sent to take a nap at my Grandmothers' - I would get up and go outside when my Grandma's back was turned and sleep under the tree - hugging it. My family just thought I was using my imagination until one day when we came for a visit and I asked to see her 'boo-boo' from when she fell down. She wanted to know how I knew about that and I pointed at the tree and told her my old friend had told me about watching her fall down and hurting herself. The 'tree' was telling me to be careful and not touch her 'sore spot' hidden under her long dress. My Grandmother got jealousy of my relationship with this tree - because I wouldn't spend time with her. I would run past her to spend time talking to my 'old' friend that was the 'spirit of this tree.' As a child, and even now - when I look back on it in retrospect - I feel the love I received from the spirit of that tree - was superior to anything my family shared with me on a 'human level' at that time in my life. A part of it was - I felt this tree knew me for the sake of my 'hidden heart' within - while my family was blind to that inner 'hidden heart.' My Grandmother 'freaked' out about iand chopped it down for firewood. I was shocked when I came to her house and it was gone. The 'ghost' of the tree was there and said it's farewell to me - and asked me to 'forgive' my Grandmother. It took years for my Grandmother to ask me to forgive her for it - and - I did. I can recall the 'spirit' of that tree telling me that it's life didn't 'depend' upon the tree itself and it had just been a 'beacon' to shine it's light in the darkness of this world for a short time. It promised me that we would continue to 'cross' paths in the future - so - nothing between us was lost. The 'spirit' of that tree taught me more about life than anyone in my family ever did.


A few years later, I was in my Grandfather's garden with him. A beetle was crawling on one of the leaves and my Grandfather said something about he wished more of them would hang out in his garden and help him out with pest control. I told my Grandpa, "Why don't you ask it for help." My Grandfather said he wished it was that easy. I told him I could talk to the beetle for him and submit his request. My Grandfather thought it was just a child's imagination until he came out into his garden and found it full of beetles. They stayed that season unlike anything he had seen prior - or afterwards.


I would tell my Grandpa what his chickens were saying about him and I warned him that - they were after my cousin. My cousin was being mean to them - and had kicked a couple of chicks. It wasn't but a few days later that my cousin was screaming his head off running around with a rooster chasing him down. I looked at my Grandpa and said, "I told you so." He had been calling them 'dumb animals.' That rooster had the final say on that. This occurred at the height of my 'near-death' experiences as a child - and from that I warned my cousin of the consequences of his actions. I told him he better make peace with that rooster and those chickens while had a chance - or otherwise that rooster was going to be waiting or him on the other side of his grave - seeking justice for the wrong my cousin had done. The rooster kept attacking him until he asked the rooster to forgive him. The attacks stopped and peace returned.


continued...

 

[dking777]

continued.....


When I was nine years old - a dog came into my life and I was able to 'speak' to it's spirit. We moved when I was 12 and we had to give the dog away. When we spoke for the last time, - the spirit of the dog promised me that it would find it's way back to me in the future - in the form of another body. It's spirit said it would come at a time when I needed it most to help support me and referenced something only the 'angels' had spoken to me about. How could the spirit of my dog know something I felt was 'secret' and 'hidden' from the world because it had came to me through 'angels?' No human in my family had ever been able to reference anything the 'angels' had told me up to that point in my young life.


When I was 38 years old - a dog mysterious appeared in my life and I had no doubt it was the reincarnation of my dog from childhood. (I spoke about meeting the spirit of this particular dog during my 1988 NDE.) I was looking forward to our reunion in the future. Once again, a divine love poured though a 'lessor' form that was superior to anything my family could provide during that time in my life.


Part of the experiences in my past that led me to think maybe the opposite is true. Maybe animals, insects and plants know more about unconditional love on a divine level than we humans do.


Sincerely,


DKing

 

[Tinkerman]

Thanks DKing, your messages are always thoughtful.


Tman

 

[Eowyn]

DKing, your story reminded me of Tolkien's ents. All my life I've thought they must have existed in the past (like hobbits ), and it would be so great trees were inhabited by such souls you describe!

 

[dking777]

DKing, your story reminded me of Tolkien's ents. All my life I've thought they must have existed in the past (like hobbits ), and it would be so great trees were inhabited by such souls you describe!

I found many metaphorical expressions in the LoR movies when I watched them and that scene triggered recall when I watched it.


Prior to this event in my young life - I was given a 'stuffed dog' when I was still in diapers. I was in contact through telepathy with an 'angelical guide' during this time and I could hear the voice inwardly. I mistaken confused the two and thought the 'voice' was coming from the stuffed dog. I carried it ever where with me and would cry if it wasn't near me. Because I carried it everywhere - it got old and dirty fast. My Dad felt I was too attached to it and snuck in one night and threw it away. When I was 8 years old - I found out the truth from the 'angelical guide' when I was told - I had mistaken the voice as coming from the stuffed animal.


I have searched my memories to make sure this wasn't the same situation with the tree. It was in fact, the first time I can recall now where I started talking about 'reincarnation' because this 'spirit' told me we knew one another from the past and I would talk about the 'tree' being a part of my life when I lived before when I was 'grown up.' I was very confused about the fact that I could be standing next to the tree with my parents - and I would hear it talking to me loud and clear and my parents were totally deaf. This became the story of my childhood and I grew used to 'hearing' invisible spirits while people around me were deaf and blind to them.


If I had mistaken notions about 'spirit' in the early stages of childhood - they would correct me as I grew older.


The thing that 'seals' it for me is the fact that I spoke about the 'tree' after my 1988 NDE and mentioned it specifically to one of my friends who me witnessed my death and recovery. He wanted to know what I had done on the 'other side' and I told him about all the old friends I had seen in spirit including my dear old friend - the tree. My friend looked puzzled when I said this and I just shrugged my shoulders and told him it was a long story.


Every thing I have uncovered in my memories points to the fact this tree had a spirit and soul.


Sincerely,


DKing

 

[tanguerra]

Part of the experiences in my past that led me to think maybe the opposite is true. Maybe animals, insects and plants know more about unconditional love on a divine level than we humans do.

Indeed!

 

[dking777]

I have another memory about this topic from conversations I shared with friends in the early 80's after my NDE. At the time I was dealing with the spirits of 5 friends who had passed away - as well as a hand full of spiritual guides I was familiar with from my NDE. The subject of reincarnation kept coming up when I had telepathic conversations with the spirits of my departed friends. At that time, I didn't care one way or the other - but - I mentioned the topic of reincarnation to my 'living friends' and they were skeptical. I asked why and they brought up the idea of animal reincarnation. I spoke - but I spoke as a medium for the sake of 'spirits' that were present. My friends were impressed by the way they felt I spoke about it with a 'sense of authoritative' narrative. I told them it wasn't me talking about what I knew as much as I was just 'repeating' what the invisible spirit (at that time) was telling me about it. I told my friends,


"I am in the same boat as you. I don't know one way or the other."


This was repeated with several spirits and several different friends over a two year period. According to what the spirits passed onto to me at that time - it wasn't possible for a human to incarnate as another animal or for an animal to incarnate as a human. I even used a metaphor about cars coming off the assembly line. A Ford was a Ford and putting a Chevy emblem on the outside didn't make it a Ford. I told them that when you went to replace the engine of a Ford - you stuck with the manufacturer that engineered the car -(for the most part.)


My friends tried to debate their limited understanding of Eastern religions that advocated reincarnation and how animal reincarnation was a part of their tradition. I told my friends I knew nothing of that - and only went by what 'spirit' had told me was true. The spirits hadn't steered me wrong in the past and I felt the spirits were acting on God's behalf. I never put in a request to have God confirm this or not - because I really wasn't interested in proving it one way or another. (I didn't feel like going over the heads of the spirits I was dealing with anyway.)


Because of these conversations in the early 80's - my own personal opinion is that we don't incarnate as other species of the animal world. I feel we are unique in our own design - just as the other animals are unique in their own design. Here in this world, we may view ourselves as superior to the other animals, but I don't agree that is true in the 'spirit world.' Like the title of that move - "All Dogs go to Heaven" - I believe that is true. I don't believe animals get lost on their way home on the other side as we humans (as spirits) tend to do sometimes. That is the price we pay for our supposed superior intelligence: deception. We think too much and get lost in our own thoughts.


Sincerely,


DKing

 

[Totoro]

I think if you look at the holographic universe theory and consider that everything is just a pattern of energy really, you can imagine everything being pushed and prodded along by other energy fields. Of course this would take a long time and certainly compatible with what science teaches us now.

 

[Eowyn]

According to what the spirits passed onto to me at that time - it wasn't possible for a human to incarnate as another animal or for an animal to incarnate as a human. I even used a metaphor about cars coming off the assembly line. A Ford was a Ford and putting a Chevy emblem on the outside didn't make it a Ford. I told them that when you went to replace the engine of a Ford - you stuck with the manufacturer that engineered the car -(for the most part.)
Because of these conversations in the early 80's - my own personal opinion is that we don't incarnate as other species of the animal world. I feel we are unique in our own design - just as the other animals are unique in their own design. Here in this world, we may view ourselves as superior to the other animals, but I don't agree that is true in the 'spirit world.' Like the title of that move - "All Dogs go to Heaven" - I believe that is true. I don't believe animals get lost on their way home on the other side as we humans (as spirits) tend to do sometimes. That is the price we pay for our supposed superior intelligence: deception. We think too much and get lost in our own thoughts.


Sincerely,


DKing

I found that very interesting, DKing, and I share your opinion. Idk, somehow I think it's like "deep inside" I know it has to be that way, though scientifically we just can't claim anything and there's still so much to research. I've always thought human beings are too anthropocentric, they always believe they are the centre of the universe or the "peak" of evolution, and we are always too intent in differentiate ourselves from the rest of animals, while I've always found fascinated that difference is close to 0 when you look at cells in a microscope. Even so, it's clear we're somehow different. Religious teachings say we're all part of the same creation, still I think it's so hard to understand for some people that there's room for everyone/everything in the "higher realms", that we all are special as we all are unique, and at the same time we're all part of a greater reality that bounds us together.


This reminds me the other day I heard someone say we're not aware language is another one of those things that differentiates us deeply from animals, and it's a complete mystery no one has disentangled yet, how language appeared. It is known some chimpanzees can learn the sign language, and it is also known how some whales and dolphins use sounds to communicate, but it's all so different to our ability to articulate and create words... Again, I doubt just random mutations and a few thousand years of evolution make that possible.

 

[Totoro]

That is the price we pay for our supposed superior intelligence: deception.

I think that it gets easier as you get older and your soul matures . Coincidentally, I had written a small blog post about the lego movie and it's deeper messages.


On the surface, most people interpreted it as a clever joke on the middle classed and aged. What I saw was the movie saying that everyone is special and for that to be true, we all must be equal. What separates us is how we choose to deceive ourselves. And in the movie, I think that was pretty plain to see as expressed through the characters.

 

[dking777]

This reminds me the other day I heard someone say we're not aware language is another one of those things that differentiates us deeply from animals, ..

When I woke up with amnesia and a blank mind toward my childhood - I had to rely on the testimony of others about who I was as a child - and what I was like. I thought everyone was trying to pull my leg about many things. With a rational and logical mind - it was hard for 'even me' to wrap my mind around the idea of many of it - without any memories to associate what people were saying. (You died and came back to life. You talked to invisible people, etc, etc, etc..)


One of the 'jokes' everyone seemed to joke about was my supposed claim as a child to be able to communicate with animals. My classmates were convinced I pulled a fly out of the air, talked to it, and had this fly attack a bully on the schoolyard. There had been 50 kids who witnessed this fight on the schoolyard and many more witnessed the aftermath - because this bully was running around the schoolyard with teachers chasing him - and the whole school saw this - so - there was sort of a legend born that day about me talking to a fly and getting that fly to do my fighting for me. That bully got put in his place and didn't pick on anyone after that. Apparently, I had demonstrated this to my Uncles, Dad and Grandfather so they witnessed it with their own eyes. Everyone wanted to know how I got a simple fly to attack a person like I did in Junior High. I had no memory of it after I turned 18. (I do now and there is a simple scientific explanation for it. There was no real telepathy involved.)


My Mom told me a story of her walking into the back yard and finding me (as a child) covered in wild birds - feeding them from my hand. She said the sight of it made her think of the Hitchcock movie "Birds" and she freaked out.


When I was 21 I recalled an incident with a pack of dogs at my Grandmother's house that did involve telepathy and a long conversation with my Dad in a garage about what I was 'hearing' those dogs talk about between themselves. I told my Dad "those dogs ain't much different from the teenagers in a lockeroom. All they got on their mind is sex. When are they going to get it, how are they going to get and if they are going to get it good."


Thee were two conversations in the garage - and two incidents I had witnessed involving this particular pack of dogs from the neighborhood. I could switch from scene to scene and in my memory there was no 'words' spoken from the dogs. It was an invisible tone and I told my Dad it was like standing next to a group of "Mexicans" speaking their language and interpreting it into English for the sake of my own mind of understanding. I was only 14 at the time and recalled asking my Dad, "How come others can't hear it like I hear it inside of me?"


When I recalled this incident at the age of 21, I spoke to a group of friends about the memory and I got ridiculed for it. That brought back memories of how many times I was ridiculed for it as a child and again at the age of 18.


I shared my deductions with my Dad when I was 14 and felt that on the physical level dogs were just as 'goofy' as humans when they were interacting with one another. There was a 'group mentality' going on and if one of those 'dogs' stepped out of line of what was 'socially' acceptable within the pack - they would get ridiculed (or punished) as well. I had spoken to the 'spirit' of a person in the past - and it was night and day compared to speaking to the 'shadow mind' or physical mind of a person in the darkness of time. Same thing with the animals. If I tapped into the physical side of their tone and interaction with one another it was totally different from when I tapped into telepathic tone radiating from the spirit of the animal. In my mind and from my experiences, animals have a language all their own.


Sincerely,


DKing

 

[dking777]

My Mom told me a story of her walking into the back yard and finding me (as a child) covered in wild birds - feeding them from my hand. She said the sight of it made her think of the Hitchcock movie "Birds" and she freaked out.

I can recall this incident with vivid detail as well. My Mom came out of the house screaming like a lunatic and scared the heck out of me. I was around 4 years old and didn't know who this woman was and took off running for my life. Of course the birds scattered to the four winds as well and took of 'popping' all over the place and me, so I got covered in 'bird poop' in the process.


I would take bread pieces and crumbs and put them in my hand and the birds would flock to me. I always referred to them as my 'friends' and insisted they wouldn't hurt me. My Mom felt they were full of diseases and nasty since she had to clean the poop off of me from that day. So, I got scolded and told NOT to let them bird came around me and to shoo them away from me like normal people.


This story became something that was talked about for a few years when ever family or friends gathered. My Mom would tell her side of it and I would be called into the room to tell how I was 'talking' to the birds and they were talking to me before my Mom came out and scared the 'poop' out of the birds and I got pooped all over because of it. I would tell them I heard the birds say, "Who is this mad woman screaming her lungs out?"


I told them that when I heard the birds say that - I thought a strange mad woman was running loose in my backyard and took off running myself and was so scared from it I didn't even know it was my own Mom screaming. When they asked how come I didn't recognize my Mom I told them, "She had a red face on and it was ugly."


I insisted my back had been turned and I didn't see my Mom and had reacted to what the 'birds' were saying more so than the sound.


The debate was on after that on whether or not it was just birds who were not intimidated by a child and didn't mind getting a free meal out of the my hands and whether my childish imagination had created an 'idea' of communicating with their 'chirps' and interpreting what I 'thought' they were saying to myself.


Years later, I was standing with the group of friends I had told he story to about the dogs. I lived in the city by the downtown district of a metropolitan area and everyone noticed a wild hawk flying overhead in the sky. They watched as it swooped down and landed in the alley we were standing in by my house. The hawk landed about 5 feet away from me and walked up to me and stood several feet from me. My friends watched in astonishment as I got lost in some sort of concentration as the hawk and I starred at one another for a few minutes before it ran past me and took off flying into the air and flew away. My friend said, "If I didn't know better, I would have sworn you two were talking to one another. I never saw your lips move, but I swear I could hear the two of you talking in a faint whisper."


I told them that we were engaged in 'silent talk'.They asked me what the conversation was about and I told them, "If God needs to get an important message to me - he uses animals sometimes. I trust it more when it comes from a bird than I do if it comes from a human."


I just shrugged my shoulders and laughed when my friends started debating trying to look for a rational and logical explanation that would explain what they had just seen with their own eyes and slightly heard (inwardly) with their own minds. "Ya'll are starting to sound and remind me of my my family when I was growing up." Prior to that incident with the hawk I was wondering if my family was right (imagination) and I was wrong thinking it was a form of 'spiritual telepathy' that had been utilized in childhood.


Sincerely,


DKing

 

[Eowyn]

DKing, now you reminded me of Gandalf talking to moths and calling eagles for help! And horse whisperers... I hope I learn to do something like that in one my next lives, it would be useful for my job!


I enjoyed reading your stories...

 

[dking777]

DKing, now you reminded me of Gandalf talking to moths and calling eagles for help! And horse whisperers... I hope I learn to do something like that in one my next lives, it would be useful for my job!
I enjoyed reading your stories...

Thank you Eowyn. As far as 'learning' to do it - if you asked me to do it now at my age - I wouldn't know where or how to begin. I think this is what led to the skepticism of my family and friends in childhood. I couldn't do it at 'will' - so to speak. It was always something that just happened 'through' me. I refereed to it as a 'lightening strike.' I couldn't control it any more than I could control when, where or how lightening was going to strike from the sky.


It was sort of like when I was able to 'communicate' with the 'spirits' of departed souls. I couldn't do it at will - and it would just happen and I rolled with it when it did.


I think that was the big thing in childhood that troubled me when I spoke to my parents about anything mystical, spiritual or metaphysical. I wasn't trying to 'tell' them anything about it - as much as I was trying to get them to teach me how to control it. Much like the 'memories' of reincarnation. I didn't 'will' those memories to me. I wasn't searching for them, or asking to remember past lives. It just happened and I was trying to control when, where and how it happened to me. What I did eventually learn to do - was control my 'reaction' to these experiences and put it in a perspective for the sake of my own personal mind.


In my humble opinion - it is not something we learn to do for ourselves - as much as it is something God chooses for us. I have no worldly idea why God choose to put these experiences in my life. I am still in the process of exploring the answer to that for my own self.


Sincerely,


DKing

 

[cloud potato]

hi blackbird, i very much like your reply.

Intriguing thread... I'm reminded of the statement, "God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal, and awakens in man." attributed to Ibn al 'Arabi.
I recall hearing it phrased "... awakens in animals, and in man knows he is awake."

hi ZeonChar

Something I've been considering lately is how do evolution and reincarnation fit in together? I'm a firm proponent of the sciences, including evolution, but I also believe in more spiritual matters, such as reincarnation. This begs the question, at what point did we start inhabiting humanoid bodies? Did we start at the beginning as single-celled organisms without consciousness and evolve both physically and spiritually from there or was there a point in time when consciousness came to the fore and we started to inhabit bodies?
I consider animals, who arguably do not have the same level of consciousness as us; at some point in time, were we like animal spirits? If that is the case, will spirits who are animals now someday be able to inhabit higher life forms?


I'm not sure which section of the forum this belongs in. What are others' takes on this matter?

these are great questions and oddly enough i find myself struggling and posing the same questions tonight ! it's hard for me to articulate my thoughts...


my question is... . Are memories embedded in our DNA ?


...proof that we are similar to other animals can be found on a cellular level


where certain structures and process from prebirth, birth and into adulthood are near identical. After watching an amazing show on Netflix, "Your inner fish" with Niel Shubin(which is also a book available online) i was reminded how our bone structure follows a similar blue print to other species found on earth !


You'd like this show ZeonChar !


It's not just our bone structure... It's the unfolding process that is evolution ! Evolution-Reincernation


Can memories be a link between the two ?


I've read of peoples memories shared on this forum discussing "pre birth" and "departing from the physical body" describing what seems to be different levels of awareness and existence.


Where are these memories stored ?


well. not much of an answer for you.


I think there are different aspects of awareness... On a timeline, awareness has its early stages and evolves with its host.... Like, having the ability to recognize/observe your existence versus having the faculties to interact with it.


i think your first question is... superconscious vs personality and i think the answer is, yes to both.


my last question is


where does DNA come from ?


well... signing off. thank you for your post and i have enjoyed sharing