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"Enlightenment" - what it is

deborah

deborah

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P.M.H. ATWATER is the author of a book titled "Children of The New Millenium." Below is her website for an article on light and an excerpt from that reading. Several posts talk about "enlightenment" - what it is and isn't. I am most interested in studies and observations of LIGHT.


"........Of intrigue are these observations I was able to make about the effect of the three very different types of subjective light:

1). Primary Light fostered exceptionally deep mystical knowings in people afterward and seemed to engender more radical changes in their sense of reality and life's purpose than with others.

2). Dark Light gently reassured those it touched and left them with a sense of being nurtured and supported while at the same time linked to larger evolutionary processes. Those who reported

3). Bright Light, though, displayed a broad range of visibly heightened abilities and an unusual sensitivity to sound, sunshine, pharmaceuticals, and anything electrically based.

In reference to the "electrical sensitivity" component, I was able to show with a questionnaire I used in the book "BEYOND THE LIGHT" that the presence of electrical sensitivity can be traced, not to the experiencer's length of exposure to the brightness subjective light can produce, but specifically to the intensity of that experience. In other words, it didn't seem to matter how much light filled an individual's scenario or what type, or whether he or she merged with that light. What mattered was how Powerfully and deeply it was felt, even if for but a brief period of time.

Curiously, if either adult or child experiencer challenged the angels, God, or religious-type figures that appeared during his or her scenario, asking "Is that what you really look like," to a person, the image would dissolve into light or suddenly burst into a massive sun-like sphere.

But, again, irrespective of image or imagery, initial feelings or sensations, are what mattered most, what made the biggest difference afterwards was the intensity of what was experienced. And, the spread of aftereffects, all of them, can be traced to the impact of that intensity.

The aftereffects, as profiled in "BEYOND THE LIGHT," suggest that near-death states can engender what may well be a brain shift - a structural, chemical, and functionary change in the brain. I examined this possibility in the research report, "Brain Shift/Spirit Shift: A Theoretical Model Using Research on Near-Death States to Explore the Transformation of Consciousness" (available from me personally or via my website at www.cinemind.com/atwater[5]). Be the numerous connections that can be made between the aftereffects and the intensity of what occurs in near death episodes, and what that seems to imply, I have come to regard the impact felt from such an experience as far more significant than who or what an individual meets on The Other Side of Death's Curtain.


It seems to me, based on my research, that a sudden charge of energy or voltage current must be present. Such a "charge" mimics lightning in the way and manner of its manifestation. The rendering that follows compares "lightflashes" in the natural world with those that seem to occur when consciousness transforms:

* In the evolution of the natural world, to equalize pressure differences between clouds in a thunderstorm and polarity of soil in the ground, descending bolts of electricity
(from the clouds) and ascending bolts of electricity (from the earth) meet to create a huge lightflash (external explosion/lightning), which stabilizes environmental integrity
while stimulating plant growth through the creation of nitrogen compounds.

* In the evolution of human consciousness, to equalize pressure differences between latent spiritual potentiality and mundane personality development, descending currents of force (possibly from the soul level, Higher Self,God) and ascending
currents of force (perhaps from time/space ego states, lower self, personality level) meet to create a powerful lightflash (internal implosion/illumination), which stabilizes and balances individual bodymind integrity while stimulating human growth through the expansion and enhancement of consciousness.

Think about what this might mean. Whether external to us or internally, either an explosion or implosion of light occurs if opposing forms energy suddenly converge. This releases pressure or radiation to such a degree that some form of nourishment or growth results. Enlightenment by its very definition means an experience of light that imparts knowledge and information for the expansion of human consciousness and the evolution of the human family.

What makes us think that this experience is only symbolic? Or merely a shift of attitudes? Or a product of wishful thinking?

The Aramaic word NOOHRA means "light," "enlightenment," and "under standing." Noohra or "light" in many passages of the Christian Bible re- fers to God, His Word, or a true teaching. But it also connotes "innate knowledge," as if the Old Testament prophets understood that the world of matter was endowed from its very beginnings with the power of inner light.

(a good reference for this is the book, "LET THERE BE LIGHT: THE SEVEN KEYS," by Rocco A. Errico, D.D. [6]).
Click to expand...

I would love to hear comments and reflections regarding the term enlightenment and/or experiences that you can relate to the above quote. ;)
 
"Enlightenment" - what it is not

I am beginning to have second thoughts on how to understand the word enlightement. I am now leaning towards the literal sense of the word, i.e. seeing or experiencing light in some form. My dictionary defines enlighten as to inform, to instruct and to illuminate. I prefer it to mean just to illuminate - in a literal sense.

I have to assume that seeing or experiencing light is just that - an experience. This, I think, is a reasonable assumption. By itself, this experience, like any other experience cannot teach a whole lot. It is a common observation that different persons undergoing any same experience will draw different lessons from it. I don't see why it should be different with persons experiencing light.

There are good reasons for this. What we learn fom any experience necessarily depends on how we interprete and analyse that experience. Hence different people draw different conclusions from same experience. This observation should apply to the experience of light also. Therefore, experience of light cannot, by itself, impart knowledge and information for the expansion of human consciousness.
 
Maybe I misunderstood the meaning of this thread and maybe the questions I have about 'light' are not relevant here, but I decided I would still ask them.

Does this theory mean that if we are exposed to a certain kind of light (from outside ourself) we can get some inner enlightment? Like those stories I heard about people being struck by lightning and after that they had visions etc? Lightning is electricity, but would such change also happen to someone who is exposed to e.g. sunlight, laserlight, infrared light, artificial light, or some other sort of light? Would that be why moonlight (reflection of sunlight on the moon) is called 'magical' ? Would that be why 'moonlight' brings romantic feelings to people? And if someone is sending 'inner light' to someone else, does that have a healing effect on others? How does that work? How is 'inner light' sent and received?
And what about those stories about people that are e.g. lost in the desert, without food and water, and have visions then? Would those visions be only the result of dehydratation, or would the immense exposure to sunlight also have to do with it? Do other people who also have no food and water, but are not exposed to the sunlight, also have those visions?
And when a person is happy, it often is said ' it shines off of him'. Does this have something to do with inner light? Are our moods the result of the light that is within us? Or the opposite, if we are in a good or bad mood, does that have influence on the light (or light energy) that is within us? If we can somehow absorb enough of a certain kind of light, will we evolve spiritually then? What kind of light would we have to absorb? Outer light, or light from other people that have much of that light in them? Can praying be trying to absorb light from God, or from the spiritual world? In short, where can we GET that light that we need to evolve spiritually? If the answer would be: from within ourself, then how can we PRODUCE that light within ourself?
And what about the effect of sound? Is this the same? Certain sounds have a healing effect on us, and certain sounds that we produce ourself can have a healing effect on others also. Is sound also used for spiritual evolvement? Like the OHM sound ? And singing. Why is it that mothers (and other people also) like to sing so much for their babies? Is it because they instinctly feel this is good for the baby? Is this done for the 'soul' of the baby? Does the sound of singing bring 'light' into the baby? Is sound energy then changed into light energy?

I would very much like your opinions on this. If my questions are not relevant for this thread, I wouldn't mind if they were moved to another thread.

Love,

Eevee
 
A fascinating thread! So many neat posts here thus far, I couldn't possibly do justice to them all.

However, about a year after that I had a more specific, unusual reaction to another man - this time, it seemed to be so strongly past life in nature that I've paid more attention to this sort of thing since. And yes, I had the sensation once that this particular man seemed to glow with light from within - it was subtle, but still noticeable.

Ironically, I met both men through my husband, and all 3 men are in engineering professions - for American-born men, they'd seem to be an unlikely source of my enlightenment!

Eevee, to answer your question about sending "inner light" to others, it's my intuitive understanding that you send them your light (which intuitively I called "healing light") subconsciously. You are very psychic so I have no doubt that whatever thoughts you send someone, they'll get it!

To answer some of your other questions, perhaps the fact that we all have light inside of us is the reason why we respond so well to sunlight and moonlight?

Now a question of my own - like I said, since my light experiences I've paid more attention to this sort of thing. I now notice that I seem to get a jolt of some sort when I first see someone - something about their eyes seems to jump out at me - doesn't happen to everyone, but it does happen quite a bit. Am I somehow sensing the light in them? Or is something else going on?
 
A few thoughts

I am glad to see such interest here. :)

Kris you said -"....Therefore, experience of light cannot, by itself, impart knowledge and information for the expansion of human consciousness."

I happen to know someone who has experiences of white and golden light that is brighter than the sun. She says when this happens -- her perception of her surroundings, is 360 degrees -- she can see all angles. She also says that she can access information akasha records - it is like a movie for her -full details, names, places and dates. She must only ask........a question.

When I have experiences of light, several different things seem to happen. My consciousness can be in three places at once -- and I am aware of three different perspectives at the same time. Or when my consciousness enters into the light I am somewhere else - past, present in another location of the world or future. I would call this an expansion of consciousness. What are the possibilities if we were to evolve into a greater understanding - through LIGHT. I think we have many more than five senses. What if -the many senses we are not aware of or know who to use -are based in understanding the LIGHT? I'll BRB with more thoughts in a few minutes.
 
*s*s*s ;)

Eevee and Bishopk -

*S*S* A few more thoughts. It is my understanding that the higher senses are those of vibrations. The vibration of certain sounds are also Light. I have found it to be beneficial to have the pure sound of bells (Such as Tibetan Bells) and to sit facing the sun. With the eyes closed of course. Allowing the light of the sun to come within the being and to amplify that which is within.

Solar energy is like the solar cell that is activated upon light -- that light being within you is activated when the light connects. This way you are bringing the light into the body and it is reflecting back. Everything is done in reflection. If you wish greater intensity of light, face light. Not man made light, only the light of the sun or the light of the moon. Early morning or evening light is best for this. Just before sundown and just following sunrise. The setting sun brings the most pleasurable feelings within the being.

About the LIGHT -
I have found within religion, any religion, that God is absolute. What I have found in physics, is that Light too, is absolute. The Light seems to be where God and Science meet. God is somewhere beyond the manifest world of matter, shape, and form, beyond space and time--so too is the light.

I'll wait to see what others have to say before I post anything else.
 
Deborah and Bishopk,


Thank you so much for your explanations. I feel like I finally begin to understand it now !

Quote :

Everything is done in reflection. If you wish greater intensity of light, face light.
Early morning or evening light is best for this.

Yes, I see what you mean here. I think that the early morning light is used for ‘enlightening’ since the beginning of mankind. I relate here to ancient tribes of native Americans and others, the shamans or holy men always meditate at sunrise. They must have known already that absorbing this light would give them special healing powers or so for their people.
Now something else came in my mind. If we are happy, or feeling good, being at peace with others etc, it ‘shines’ from us. Meaning somehow we produce that light within us? ‘Love’ produces that light within us maybe? And that is how we can become ‘beings of light’?
Love and inner light are the same? If we love someone, we reflect that inner light and allow others to absorb it?
And at times when for some reason not much inner light is available, we can ‘load ourselves up’ with natural outer light? When we can’t produce it ourself, we can use the outer light to obtain some balance again?
The light of a fire and candlelight…..I feel its power is different from sunlight, am I right?

So, bishopk, you said : perhaps the fact that we all have light inside of us is the reason why we respond so well to sunlight and moonlight.

Couldn’t it be just the other way round? Because we know how to respond to sunlight and moonlight, we can let the light inside us grow?

I think what I learned thus far from this thread is that inner light and outer light are connected.

Quote :

It is my understanding that the higher senses are those of vibrations. The vibration of certain sounds are also Light.

Yes, I agree here. Blind people can get enlightened then by other vibrations, like sound, warmth etc (outer experiences) and by the inner light that is reflected from others?

So we use our five senses to get the inner light. Deborah, here also I would like to change your statement/question. Maybe if we could use more of those senses, the ones we are not aware of, we could absorb more light (or vibrations), and so become more Light (or come closer to the Light)?

If our memory somehow gets enlightened, we can have past life memories? Compare it with a room (our memory) where the light doesn’t reach the corners, and when more light is trown in, we see a lot more. Could it be possible that some kind of outer light can be used to get better access to past life memories?

I realise I have a lot of questions, but I really like this thread !

Love,

Eevee
 
Learning opportunity

Hi Deborah, I know people (one of my gurus for example) who can access all kinds of information about me and others but who do not speak of light, at least overtly. Seeing light is a specific experience. Every kind of experience presents a learning opportunity. Light is no exception. What one learns from experience is still up to the experiencer. However, there is no question in my mind that light presents a particularly unique and uncommon opportunity for learning.
 
light

Dear Deborah,
I looked at the site you referenced as well as the whole article. the following is my "take".:D

I have two observations to make. First the near-death experiences presented on the site run to a great diversity, all the way from psychotic “bad trips” through second person accounts of the experience said to have befallen young children through more standard fare. I think that the article itself is a straight-foward dualist interpretation. Whatever light there is is said to be “god”, second party. The first party being the reporter.

So, if the drift of your question is to ask “is the light (no matter what the color) god”? the answer in the dualist framework must be either: 1) Yes! or 2) maybe but perhaps it is merely a “delusion”, a bemused function of the personal mind (ego).

To me, neither of these answers is satisfactory. Internal Light in any form manifests from the Self (IMHO). The way it is interpreted depends on the spiritual state of the person concerned at the time the Self is glimpsed. A certain transformation always results because the experience indicates to the person concerned that they are much more than merely a physical body. They then know for sure that they are spirit (in a body, at the least). Intensity is certainly a function and it means more or less comprehension of the Self and the relationship of the ego thereto.

I would guess that the electricity referred to is the personal experience of sequential chakra-ignition (kundalini). This is far-recall, it feels like an electrical current and transfers ego consciousness to that of the Higher Self. White Light, Golden Light, Dark Light – these are all measures (in some sense) of contact with the one Self, outside time and space, the one Reality from which we all “devolve”.

True enlightenment (IMHO) is quite simply the exact recollection of the source of our being and moreover total identification therewith. Every other manifestation of the internal light is an illuminated way station somewhere along the “path”. :)
Regards
 
More thoughts on LIGHT

Eevee --- In the book The Isaiah Effect, by Gregg Braden, he states:

“In an ever changing view of creation, many scientists now believe that all we know as our world is ultimately made of the same substance, tiny packets of light (quanta) vibrating at different speeds. Some light vibrates so slowly that it appears as rocks and minerals. Other forms of light vibrate more rapidly to appear as the living material of plants animals, and people, while even faster vibrations make up our television and radio signals. Ultimately, each may be reduced to the quality of vibrating light.” (pg 99)
Click to expand...

IMO - we are vibrating light photons already! I have found the LIGHT to be a way to "enter into" my past lives -the light seems to magnify the clarity of the experience, where names, dates, and people can be remembered as well as the FULL BLOWN emotional content that comes with it.

Sue -I do believe that consciousness creates and if your family member was vibrating in negativity, and anger then his Devil -is a product of his own making. IMO. Possibly an aspect of his higher self -getting his attention as Robin suggests. The end result -a change in his attitudes and intentions. Which in my mind leads to endless possibilities. Good for him!

Michael Talbot in his book The Holographic Universe, implies:

“Our brains mathematically construct objective reality by interpreting frequencies that are ultimately projections from another dimension, a deeper order of existence that is both beyond space and time. The brain is a hologram enfolded in a holographic Universe.” (pg #54)
Click to expand...
 
*s*s*s

I would like to know if anyone has looked into solificatio which is the alchemical reference for the Operation of the Sun. The idea is to activate the operation of the sun, its cycles of descent (destruction) and ascent (creation or resurrection), in one’s inner world in order to bring about healing and transformation.

A friend of mine recently shared with me the following -

Jung regards the solificatio as both the symbol of wholeness and the process of psychological transformation, enlightenment, or individuation, which requires periodic descents into the dark unconscious in order to achieve a “lighting up” of its contents. One could say that all of Jung’s ideas and writings refer to this process.

For a specific reference to the solificatio, he suggests reading the Isis Mystery described by Apuleius.
Click to expand...

I would be interested in anyone's thoughts on this in order to extend the converation regarding "enlightenment." :)
 
Well, here I am back at this same point again, but Deborah, after all I have shared, do you also still not believe in the existence of the Exú entities and of entities of "lesser light", if not as a figment of our own creations? For this is the means by which they are described in spiritism: entities of lesser and greater light. The more evolved the spiritual entity is, the greater its light. Those that glow in white and gold being the most developed. The opposite is also true: those of lesser spiritual development are described as being of a darker tone, like a dark shadow.

Sue, in Candomblé it is believed that EVERYONE has an Exú guide. Mine happens to be Lucifer, but there are several others. They are not, however, according to the understandings of Candomblé, exactly as they are described in the Christian churches. IMO what the person you mentioned saw may have been his own personal Exú guide. (sorry if this sounds a little too crazy, but heck, what doesn't sound a little too crazy in all that we are discussing here?) :rolleyes: ;)
 
????

Hi Charles,

You lost me - perhaps you could explain????

...but Deborah, after all I have shared, do you also still not believe in the existence of the Exú entities and of entities of "lesser light", if not as a figment of our own creations?
Click to expand...

I don't think I said anywhere "I don't believe in the Exu' " ---
 
Hi (((Deborah))),

It's very early and I have to be off to work, so unfortunately I must be brief. Where I am lost in trying to understand the way you and many others, including Robin in particular in what we are discussing in the Reincarnation and Religion section, is regarding how that which is around us can be thought created (an illusion?) and yet also exist then as separate, individual and "real"(???!!!).

If you say everything is "thought created", how then can you believe in the existence of my Exú? If everything is "thought created", then, as far as I can understand (and as hard as I am trying to) would this not then mean that "you" would be nothing more than an illusion to "me"? And "I" would be nothing but an illusion to "you"? :rolleyes:

Remember the story of that friend of ours who was telling of when she was with her manicurist explaining the concept that everything is an illusion and the manicurist slapped her thigh and said: How's that for an illusion? Good point. Likewise, "I" am here, and "you" are there, and the spirits in the spiritual realm are also there, as are the Exus, Orishas, angels, archangels... Not as "illusions", but as individual and separate beings. No???

:rolleyes: :confused: :)
 
mmmmmmmm

I am going to sit on this a little longer before responding Charles. For one reason; Last night I woke up to two Light Beings in my bedroom. The golden/white light that vibrated from them, and my emotional as well as physical response --has me deeply reflecting on the experience. It felt like I had been asleep for hours -when if fact when I looked at the clock -it had been only 50 minutes. It's been almost a year since the last time I experienced something close to this - not the same.....but similar. *S*S*S*S

So...into silence I go -- to deeply reflect and absorb the experience. Reflections coming soon. ;)
 
Wow, Deborah...

I'm really looking forward to reading what you can share after that!!!

Do they ever give you any names??? What kinds of things do they say, if anything???

:cool
 
A few first thoughts......

I want to be real clear on this-- I do not believe in any way shape or form that my experience suggests enlightenment. I see enlightenment as an active process that is never ending. It is to me- consciousness is action. It just so happens that Charles questions that night - and my experience both fall within this thread and seem to be related.

I also realize that my experience -is just that -an experience for which I do not have the answers - only more questions. So first I'll explain the experience -

The night of - 5/1/03 -I went to bed at 11:00PM. It felt like I was asleep for hours when while dreaming I became aware of vibrating LIGHT-- white and golden light that became brighter and brighter in my dreaming state. I began to wake up due to the intensity of LIGHT and vibrations but also due to my breath. When I opened my eyes -this extremely beautiful golden and white light LIGHT was next to me in my room -- I was also aware that they were separate from me and that there was two of them. I could only see LIGHT --vibrating intensely and feel the presence of what I can only describe as TWO Light Beings.

Two things stand out to me besides the LIGHT and vibrations; My physical reaction -which was total shock and took me by surprise; but also the odd breathing patterns I was doing when I woke up. I was breathing very fast in short pants as if giving birth for which I cannot even try to do now like I was doing that night! Those of you who have been through child birth -- remember those breathing techniques when contractions would start and they were short and shallow? Just like that only more intense!! The other thing was the HIGH Vibration through out my body. I felt as though I was plugged into a light socket! After a few minutes the light faded away and the vibration settled down a little -- but continued all night.

It felt like I had been asleep for hours but when I looked at the clock it had only been 55 minutes.

I have experienced Inner Light quite a bit. I have experienced Light Beings before - but its been a while and was very different from my other expereinces. I am currently reflecting on the difference between the inner light I so often experience and this Light Force outside of myself. Which seems to relate to Charles question???? The process I felt was as if --- the LIGHT Essence was activating me!

Has anyone else had a similar experience with breath? And vibrations? And Light? Charles - I hope to formulate my thoughts more clearly and articulate my perspective soon. I am still -in process.
 
Hi Deborah,

Wow, I've never seen anything like what you've just described. Did you try to touch the light or anything?

The only related experience I have ever had was with a vibration. I was just sitting on my bedroom floor one night reading through a book, when suddenly I felt "something" pass through my entire body. I can only describe it as a big "whoosh" followed by a type of vibration. It started from the left side of me, and then whooshed through the rest of my body. My body was almost shaking from it. And it's almost like there was a noise as it went through me, but I don't know how to describe it- maybe from the vibration? It just felt like something ran through me real fast. I'm not sure who or what it was though....but it came out of nowhere.

I have felt a spirit sitting on my bed before also, but I was too afraid to open my eyes. It woke me up in the middle of the night....and I felt it just sitting there by my feet, then I felt it get up off the bed and I could actually hear it walking through my bedroom. (I had papers on the floor- and could hear it stepping on them...making crunching sounds)...But I never saw any light, and was actually very frightened.

-Sue :)
 
Deborah,
What a wounderful experience. I imagine that the physical sensations talk about are "natural" when someone get in contact with so much light and energy.

I recognise this vibrations you talk about and the feeling of being connected to a light socket. I usually hear a very low tone buzzing pulsating kind of sound at the same time. It remainds me of a distant pnematic drill, but it's a nice sound. I'm not always really sure of why this happens to me. Sometimes it happens when I heal my self and I'm making some kind of breakthrough and the energy get really intense. Sometimes these sensations just come. I think they could be connected to light beings being around, but I've never seen them or been sure about them being there.

What do you mean by seeing inner light? I think I know what you mean but I'm not sure. Sometimes when I close my eyes I can see a strong white light. It also usually when I'm connected to some kind of light source.

One when I walked past a Russian Orthodox church with Fredrik, my boyfriend. We crossed ourselves. It was a joke but not disrespectful in any way. We both stayed in Kiev for a while and love Orthodox cermons even if we are secularised protestants. When I crossed myself I saw I strong white light with my "inner eyes" and I also felt a warmt. I've found that many Christian rituals have a deeper spiritual meaning that we seem to have forgotten about. I also know other symbols I can draw in order to increase the energy.

Did you feel any warmth or heat when you met those light beings? I usually feel that too in conection to the other sensations.

Sue,
When you felt something "walking through" you did you get a pleasant feeling? Or how did you feel?

Your other experience sound more like a ghost encounter. I hope you are not scared of them. I don't think they are harmful. I must admit that I used to be very scared of ghosts, but I never got scared when I acually met them. I was just terrifyed that I would meet them when they weren't around. ;)

Veronica
 
Hi Veronika,


I felt a little out of breath, shocked, but I did giggle over it a little. I'd never felt anything like it before, I didn't know what to think. I stood up and looked around wondering what had just happened. I wasn't scared though. It's kinda like what Charles said about diving into water- how the water whooshes around you....except it went through my entire body. I was trying to describe the "sound" .....it was like feeling sound....the vibration of it, if that makes sense.

I also think the entity on my bed was a ghost- that time I did not get a pleasant feeling- AT ALL. I was terrified, I woke up that way...scared before I even knew what was going on or knew the entity was on my bed.

-Sue :)
 
" I was trying to describe the "sound" .....it was like feeling sound....the vibration of it, if that makes sense."

Yes :) This sound this vibration I tried to describe to Deborah was also like that. I'm not sure it was the same sound, but the vibration and the feeling of it was stronger than the actual sound.
 
light and sound.........

Hi Sue and Veronika,

You know Veronika -somehow I missed your previous post :eek:
The white light you are describing when you close your eyes is, in my opinion inner light. Do you only see white light? I am curious. I didn't notice any warmth or heat -I was too busy with strange breathing -vibrations and Light. I do have the buzzing sound in my ears - quite often in fact and have had the sensations/vibrations as if plugged into a light socket many times for the past 15 years. *S*S*S

I also agree with you that there are certain rituals - that we have forgotten the original intention behind the belief.

Sue I think your description was well said and you put it eloquently -"feeling sound."

My shock - that I described earlier - was not that I was afraid -just the opposite in fact. It was more along the lines that I felt I was in the presence of omnipresence. My whole body was in reverence to these Light Beings.

Charles..I am still considering your question but so far -what I am leaning toward is that the material world is "thought created" -an illusion and a co-agreement/creation among conscious beings. Time and space are also an illusion. But the presence of - soul and or spirit are not, they are eternal-and in the light. This then would be the higher self Kris and Robin refer too. *S*S*S (Correct me if you disagree guys)

Therefore - as my recent experience suggests to me -these Light Beings are LIGHT - they vibrate at a much higher intensity than humans do - they are in a higher dimension than we are -and are more directly -if not directly connected to their soul/spirit/God.
I will leave it at this for now and return this evening with a few more thoughts.
 
Hi Deborah,
It's easy to miss a post when the thread is broken into a new paige. :)

Do I see other colours too? I can see light with my "inner eyes" in two ways. The first is maybe more like a vision, when I see that an energyblock has a certain colour and that it could be healed with another colour of light. This I've been able to see this for many years.

I can also see light, when I heal or encounter strong energy in some other way. Like you when you see inner light. I can see this even when my eyes are open but I don't see it with my normal eyes, if you understand what I mean? Lately I've started too see other colours than white. When the energy is very strong I only see white light. I think that's why I only could see white light in the beginning.

Sorry, that I had to explain this in such a complicated and detailed way, but I had to make those things clear to me too. It's so hard to explain those things and sometimes the differences between different experiencies are suttel.

When I heard the buzzing sound I usually don't hear it so much in my ears as in side my body. I suppose the ears are involved. as we hear with our ears. :) This is when the source of the sound is inside my body and not outside it, as it must have been for you that night.

By some reason I only hear this buzzing sound and feel those strong vibrations when I heal myself. Never when I heal others. My theory is that my body can handle stronger energies than people who has less energy in their bodies and that's why I sometimes get strong stuff.

I saw my own aura in a very strange way once. I'm not sure how to explain this. I was lying in bed wanting to sleep. I was definatley awake. The room was very dark and when I opened my eyes I saw grenish but colourless spirals moving arorund me. It was like there was a "flower" pattern inside these spirals. It reminded me of Indian cloths that have a mandala pattern that is very typical. This flower patterns was moving as well. It was beatuifull and strange. I imagine that I saw not the coulor of my aura but the texture.

This happened when I visited my family. The next morning I told them about my experience and my brother said that he used to see that too. We have never discussed this again and I've never seen it again. I wonder if I in some way got connected to his skill of seeing this and borrowed his ability. He was sleeping in the next room only a couple of meters away.

I think I can see my aura with my normal eyes othervise too. This only happens in daylight. It has no colour. I can see the air around me vibrate as air does on a very hot day. The difference is that the vibrations are much smaller. It's easier to see when I take in more light and I suppose this makes my aura vibrate more.

Does any of you recognise this?

I've never seen any light beings. I hope I will. :)

Veronica
 
Deborah, I think you put it very well...

Personally I have no doubt of the existence of spiritual beings who, just like us, are also ETERNAL...

I honestly do not believe in a "return to the source" if this implies in loss of individuality and identity.

Regarding "consciousness creating", I once inquired about this with a spiritual entity at my center and her reply was that there is a proportion of both: that which WE create and that which we do not, but which rather is under the influence of external powers way beyond our own. I think if it were a question of just what WE create, we would certainly create differently to that which we often find around us. I know I most certainly would...
 
Hi Charles,
"I honestly do not believe in a "return to the source" if this implies in loss of individuality and identity."

Everytime you discuss this with experience of reality and time etc. I always feel that it is something fundamental you don't understand. I mean in order to understand how we see this. I don't mean that you are wrong and I'm right because I only think that we see this from two different perspectives.

I'll try to explain how I see enlightenment. You know these Russian dolls that's called matruschka and you can open them and find a smaller doll inside. OK, in this example there are only three dolls to make it simple. The fist smallest one is pure wood and that's you Charles. Outside that doll is a bigger one that is your soul and outside that one there's the big doll that's the one, the source God or what ever you want to call it. These three dolls exist inside each other all the time in eternity. What changes isn't really you it's your consousness. You can move your consiousness from being you, your souls or God. To only experience everything from the divine level that is true enlightment and you can see this as returning to the source if you want to. But on one level you are still Charles you just don't experience being Chales when you are enlightend you only experience being one.

When I say God I don't mean the creator god I mean "all that is".

This is not a perfect example because all your other incarnations are not mentioned. From the soul perspective, the middel dolls, all your incarnations are inside it and simultainous. Not just your Charles- life.

The same goes for how much we create our consiousness, that depends on if you see it from the persective of the first the second or the third doll.

It's not a perfect way of explaining this but at least I tried. It's like you see my way of seeing things as contradictory to your's, but it is Not . That's the only thing I hope you will see. ;)

Veronica
 
Hi Veronica,

That was very nicely explained. Thank you... ;)

I understand the concept, and agree to the notion of the different spiritual bodies. The only point that I keep "beating around the bush" is in relation to the "higher self" being "All that is". From all I have learned and experienced in my contacts with spirituality, one notion I would have to say I am sure of is that of the existence of a Creator God (All that is), of which we may be a part of but certainly cannot be "All that is".

Many lines of thought believe that we will eventually become one with "All that is". In this indeed I just cannot agree, if in "becoming one" this means loss of individuality and identity. If this were so, the great masters and the enlightened ones of the past would not be in existence any longer. I am quite sure this is not so...

Yes, these are tough ones for me to believe in... :rolleyes: :)
 
Hmmmmm,

In fact I am now thinking that a Creator God could not be refered to as "All that is", for as I said in another thread, we should not confuse the creator with its creature, or a painter with his painting... ;)
 
No, I don't think that think that the creator God and "All that is" would be the same. The creator God idea is a tricky thing and I would have to think about that a little longer. Did you ever read my post in the time thread about that? The one you never answered. I think we are back there.

And concerning the great masters according to the matruschka analogy the masters would be both masters and All that is at the same time. The difference would lie in where their consiousness was focust. Because according to this line of thinking time wouldn't be linear.

Veronica
 
Charles,
This is how I tried to get my mind around it then.

"As we both see this from a human perspective we have to interpret and name things in a way the human mind can grasp. I think you can describe the creation in many ways that are all true in different ways. One way to see it is to describe it as different energies working together to create the earth. Another way is to name those engergies. Maybe you take the sum of the engergies and call the the creator god or you name different engergies differently and have many gods. There are probably millions of other ways to describe this too.

If you name these energies they also get personalities, like the god you sometimes are kind enough to lend your body to. It's like with us humans. The nomal human way is to see our physical bodies. A soul from another level or some evolved humans might see us as energy balls with made of differnt kinds of engergy . I wouldn't say that one way or the other is less true."
 
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