Compassion vs Forgiveness
- Thread starter Prudence
- Start date
Yes Nancy it does. I was like you for a long time until it finally sunk in that what I went through as a child was inflicted on me by others but was allowed by me when I agreed to this life to learn some vital lessions. In short I had to forgive my self then I could forgive others.
Jack
Jack
Prudence
♥
We could just not speak to them. :tongue: Okay, seriously, that is an option (but is also resentment). I'd say if someone apologizes and is sincere, forgiveness then becomes a personal goal. In some cases an easy one, in some cases hard. It depends on the person and situation.
However, multiple times there are such things as neutral reactions or tolerance.
However, multiple times there are such things as neutral reactions or tolerance.
Phoenix
Forgot to play nice
Prudence said:
Is it resentment, or is it an effective way of getting them out of our life?
I certainly have ended friendships with people who turned out to be toxic friends. Not out of anger or resentment, but to keep them from having any further impact on my life, which I then go on with.
And, as toxic friends tend to be as difficult to detach as a lamprey, sometimes you have to do things like blocking their calls, not speaking to them, etc. Not out of anger or resentment, but to keep them out of your life.
Prudence said:
That's a big "If". Most people don't recognize there is anything wrong with their behavior, and therefore don't apologize. And some things are just plain unforgiveable.
Prudence said:
And there is also: Don't get mad, get even.
Phoenix
tiltjlp
A Recycled Soul
Phoenix said:
No, you're right that there are other options, as you have pointed out, but anger/resentment seems to be the usual knee-jerk response. While ending the relationship is an option, and avoidance can be effective, often forgiveness is the best possible thing you can do for yourself. I screen my phone calls just for the reason you mentioned above, to avoid contact with bothersome people. But I'm nearly 60, and the older I get the less important getting even becomes, and the less energy I want to waste remaining upset at others. I have a good enough self-image that I'm usually able to ignore unpleasant people and their actions.
John
Phoenix
Forgot to play nice
tiltjlp said:
That's pretty good. Sometimes ignoring people and their actions is not the right thing to do. Because that can make a bad situation worse. We had one of those at our company last week.
When the marketing manager dumped a death march project with an impossible deadline into my life a week ago, and it was: complete it on time or be the next person out the company's revolving door. I couldn't ignore him or his actions.
Nor could I forgive him, because he has a habit of making promises he can't keep and then shoving them off on one of his colleagues to deliver-while taking the credit for it in advance. You can't forgive an unrepentant pattern of behavior that causes problems for the company.
Instead, I figured out how to actually complete the project, and then laid down the law to our boss on what i needed resource-wise in order to complete it.
All I have to do to get even with him is complete the project on time, and get the credit for it.
Phoenix
tiltjlp
A Recycled Soul
How well I remember those kind of work place jerks and the problems they could cause. I never handled that kind of stuff very well, hating authority the way I do. Luckily I haven’t had to deal with that sort of thing for 20 years. Sometimes being a semi-hermit has its advantages.
John
John
Ailish
Administrator Emerita
We are entitled to feel absolutely any way we choose to feel. To not experience the emotion behind any situation we are faced with is very self-limiting, imo. It’s how we choose to react after the occurrence. I think we need to acknowledge the fact that we are not responsible for anyone else’s behaviour except our own -- another’s behavior is really all about them and not about us. If someone is angry with us, or vindictive towards us, that is their issue and not ours. The key to not getting our feelings hurt – is to not take personally others’ uncaring behaviour or actions.
I do realize that we are all profoundly feeling beings – and the old adage about “Sticks and Stones” really is a daily struggle. It does hurt when people are cruel and uncaring. Feel it, experience it, understand it, work through it – and let it go.Too many times we dwell on the wrongs that have been done against us. By dwelling on the hurt, it is impossible for us to forgive.
The awareness that our consciousness is tied to our personal experiences and day-to-day concerns is just one aspect of a more inclusive higher consciousness. The broader spiritual consciousness places conflicts and anxieties in perspective. Preoccupation with the self lessens as identity encompasses a larger picture of reality. Individual problems are no longer the be-all and end-all.
With compassion comes the awareness and sensitivity to the struggles and suffering of others, as well as the complexity of the human condition. In narrowing the split between self and others, compassion diminishes self focus and expands consciousness. Compassion reduces the sense of isolation and loneliness. It calls attention to the common nature of pain and the interconnectedness of the entire human family.
Compassion and forgiveness are intimately entwined. In recognizing the struggles of others it becomes easier to let go of blame and accusations for one's own plight. Blaming often binds to a past which no longer exists and cannot be changed. Forgiveness frees energy for focusing on the here-and-now. It naturally encourages personal responsibility for growth. Forgiveness liberates the higher self.
I wanted to share this quote by Eckert Tolle: “If her past were your past, her pain your pain, her level of consciousness your level of consciousness, you would think and act exactly as she does. With this realization comes forgiveness, compassion, peace.”
Ailish
Phoenix
Forgot to play nice
tiltjlp said:
Semi-hermit, I like that.
I only hate authority if I'm not the one in charge and the person who is in charge is leadership impaired. Been there, done that, got the uniform.
Why should anyone feel hurt if someone else is a jerk to them. Why should the fact that someone else does something rotten or stupid that impacts me hurt my feelings?
Although as far as I'm concerned, any situation where i don't respond with my personal automatic knee-jerk reaction is a positive thing. But, sometimes I still have to remind myself that I can't have people taken out and shot anymore.
Phoenix
Charles Stuart
Senior Registered
Hi,
I loved your reply, Ailish.
It is always tough to put oneself into another person's shoes...
Most people live in a kind of imaginary world. I call it a "world of illusion". We do not have access to another person's thoughts nor to events that we did not personally testify, and very often people create an "illusion" over another person or event. The opposite is also true: no one else has access to our thoughts or the way we feel, and this creates tremendous confusion and misunderstandings happen all the time.
The thing with compassion and forgiveness is that they are, indeed, means by which to break free from a bond that we do not desire, as it certainly isn't doing us good. We may choose to "forgive and forget", and even not to have any further involvement with a person who has caused us harm.
The thing with "karma" seems to be precisely on top of human relationships, and it seems that more often than not it is the people closest to us who can cause us greatest pain, such as family, loved ones or friends.
Holding "rage" and "feelings of revenge", however, apparently affects our metaphysical energy and can even negatively affect our physical body. Kirlian photos of people with such feelings reveal a darkening of the "aura", which, compared to the beautiful colors of a healthy aura, have an awful appearance. Negative feelings seem to blow holes wide open in our metaphysical field.
So, it seems healthier that we should try to develop positive feelings such as compassion and forgiveness for our own sake and well being...
I loved your reply, Ailish.
It is always tough to put oneself into another person's shoes...
Most people live in a kind of imaginary world. I call it a "world of illusion". We do not have access to another person's thoughts nor to events that we did not personally testify, and very often people create an "illusion" over another person or event. The opposite is also true: no one else has access to our thoughts or the way we feel, and this creates tremendous confusion and misunderstandings happen all the time.
The thing with compassion and forgiveness is that they are, indeed, means by which to break free from a bond that we do not desire, as it certainly isn't doing us good. We may choose to "forgive and forget", and even not to have any further involvement with a person who has caused us harm.
The thing with "karma" seems to be precisely on top of human relationships, and it seems that more often than not it is the people closest to us who can cause us greatest pain, such as family, loved ones or friends.
Holding "rage" and "feelings of revenge", however, apparently affects our metaphysical energy and can even negatively affect our physical body. Kirlian photos of people with such feelings reveal a darkening of the "aura", which, compared to the beautiful colors of a healthy aura, have an awful appearance. Negative feelings seem to blow holes wide open in our metaphysical field.
So, it seems healthier that we should try to develop positive feelings such as compassion and forgiveness for our own sake and well being...
tiltjlp
A Recycled Soul
Good post Charles. As I've tried to point out above, forgiving someone is more for yourself than it is for them. You don't even have to let the other person know you forgave, them unless you have an ongoing relationship with them, such as family or friends. I've always felt that resentment and anger adversely effect my life in too many negative ways to be worth holding on to.
John
John
Charles Stuart
Senior Registered
Hi John,
Have you ever read a book called The Celestine Prophecy"? In it there is a passage that refers to how people create a "negative connection of energies", by which one person can actually drain energy from the other through the chakra in our plexus. In this process, one individual "feeds" upon another's energy by maintaining this "link of negativity". An enemy will do what he can not to let you go, "because he feels stronger while maintaining the link".
So certainly the process of "letting go" is much healthier for one who manages to forgive and "break the negative link".
This is quite different from not "defending yourself when you are being attacked". But if indeed there is no way out, it is best to just break the link, even if the "enemy" IS someone close to you.
There is a saying here in Brazil that I don't know if it exists in English: "To err is human, to forgive is Divine..."
Have you ever read a book called The Celestine Prophecy"? In it there is a passage that refers to how people create a "negative connection of energies", by which one person can actually drain energy from the other through the chakra in our plexus. In this process, one individual "feeds" upon another's energy by maintaining this "link of negativity". An enemy will do what he can not to let you go, "because he feels stronger while maintaining the link".
So certainly the process of "letting go" is much healthier for one who manages to forgive and "break the negative link".This is quite different from not "defending yourself when you are being attacked". But if indeed there is no way out, it is best to just break the link, even if the "enemy" IS someone close to you.
There is a saying here in Brazil that I don't know if it exists in English: "To err is human, to forgive is Divine..."
tiltjlp
A Recycled Soul
To be honest Charles, I don't remember if I've read The Celestine Prophecy or not, although it sounds familiar. I agree that you sometimes have to defend yourself, both physically and emotionally, if under attack. And I can see where someone else can drain your energy, so it doesn't make sense to hold on the negativity and drain even more of you spiritual and emotional energy. And yes, To err is human, to forgive is Divine is well known in America.
John
John
MoonDansyr
Senior Registered
Boy did I need this today. Thank you Ailish!
Forgiveness and resentment are two things I continually work hard to overcome. I do really well for awhile - - learn a few lessons, and then I crash and burn.
One thing I learned how to do was stand up for myself in interactive situations. It took me awhile but I finally learned that I had control by saying, "I'm not going to allow you to do this to me." However, this doesn't work in all situations and I haven't mastered all the situations yet.
In what I just said, I'm saying that I create my own reality - - so even in the situations I haven't learned how to control just yet, - - those situations I find it difficult to give forgiveness and harbor resentment, I genuinely believe I'm controlling those, as well. But I'm still learning.
Charles~ I read both The Celestine Prophecy and The Tenth Insight - - I loved them. I ordered Ask and it is Given (The Teachings of Abraham) which seems to go along similar lines, but I haven't yet begun reading it.
Forgiveness and resentment are two things I continually work hard to overcome. I do really well for awhile - - learn a few lessons, and then I crash and burn.
One thing I learned how to do was stand up for myself in interactive situations. It took me awhile but I finally learned that I had control by saying, "I'm not going to allow you to do this to me." However, this doesn't work in all situations and I haven't mastered all the situations yet.
In what I just said, I'm saying that I create my own reality - - so even in the situations I haven't learned how to control just yet, - - those situations I find it difficult to give forgiveness and harbor resentment, I genuinely believe I'm controlling those, as well. But I'm still learning.
Charles~ I read both The Celestine Prophecy and The Tenth Insight - - I loved them. I ordered Ask and it is Given (The Teachings of Abraham) which seems to go along similar lines, but I haven't yet begun reading it.
I find it hard to forgive on the most silly things.. I had an abusive half brother, incredibly manipulative half sister who both didnt like me because my mammy would shower me with attention and showed her love.. which they often tried to wreck.
Then when I started working I was emotionally bullied by the boss and then backstabbed by co-workers.
So when somebody crosses me I can go into a mad fury as I think to myself "I have went through too much I WILL NEVER be made a fool of again" and will usually shout that person down to the ground and hold a long-standing grudge against them... but I am only 19 hopefully I will learn to ditch my hurt and let my guard down.
Then when I started working I was emotionally bullied by the boss and then backstabbed by co-workers.
So when somebody crosses me I can go into a mad fury as I think to myself "I have went through too much I WILL NEVER be made a fool of again" and will usually shout that person down to the ground and hold a long-standing grudge against them... but I am only 19 hopefully I will learn to ditch my hurt and let my guard down.
This past week I saw the Amish community deeply hurt by a mad gunman who killed some of their children and then shot himself. It was reported in the news that some in the Amish community went to his funeral and ministered to his family as a gesture of forgiveness and compassion. That was powerful.
Tinkerman
Tinkerman
Phoenix
Forgot to play nice
Jonjo said:
Welcome to to the wonderful world of work and the joys of office politics, Jonjo
Jonjo said:
Actually, if you want to protect yourself from people crossing you, backstabbing, etc., keep your guard up and watch your back. The sort of people who engage in that type of behavior tend to look for the weakest members of the herd, like predators do.
If you want to really drive people like that nuts, try this technique: Smile and be friendly. No matter what you are thinking or feeling or if you want to kick them in the teeth. No matter what they say or do. Even if you hate your co-workers and your boss.
Take the high road, and smile and be friendly. Joke with them, pass the time of day with them, and never forget to say good morning, have a good evening and have a good weekend.
Not only will this help to keep your own morale up, but it can also be contagious if you've got others around you who could use a smile and a good morning.
Phoenix
I am a very forgive full person, my attitude is ‘we can all fall and make any mistake, now or in a pl’, even though I do believe sometimes you need to forgive and at the same time keep away from hurtful people you cannot change is a good way to handle things.
I watched many times shows on t.v about people that forgave someone who left them handicapped for the rest of their lives or killed their loved ones. I also watched people which forgiveness wasn’t an option for them.
I found that beautiful light around the ones who forgive, what a courage, I can’t even imagine the karmic impact on their soul by taking such a step.
On the other hand, I can’t put myself in either side when it comes to such a tragic result. I believe forgiveness is the way to live life but now when I am a mother and my love towards my daughter is beyond possible, I can understand a parent who lost their child by someone’s selfish decision , how can they forgive when they can’t forget?
It keeps amazing me when I hear of parents who forgave the person who killed their loved child, there is a lot to learn from those courageous parents.
It’s always happen like that, a drunk driver caused an accident and killed another person/s but the person who drove drunk and caused the tragic accident is always kept without a scratch.
Like God kept them alive because they needed to live with their mistake, like the whole thing had a purpose, creating the relationship between the ‘killer’-who have to live with his fetal mistake for the rest of his life and the grieving family- who have to live without their loved one/s for the rest of their life. it’s like a double lesson, one for each side and the challenge will be how both sides will handle it together- the findings of compassion and forgiveness through the healing process.
I watched many times shows on t.v about people that forgave someone who left them handicapped for the rest of their lives or killed their loved ones. I also watched people which forgiveness wasn’t an option for them.
I found that beautiful light around the ones who forgive, what a courage, I can’t even imagine the karmic impact on their soul by taking such a step.
On the other hand, I can’t put myself in either side when it comes to such a tragic result. I believe forgiveness is the way to live life but now when I am a mother and my love towards my daughter is beyond possible, I can understand a parent who lost their child by someone’s selfish decision , how can they forgive when they can’t forget?
It keeps amazing me when I hear of parents who forgave the person who killed their loved child, there is a lot to learn from those courageous parents.
It’s always happen like that, a drunk driver caused an accident and killed another person/s but the person who drove drunk and caused the tragic accident is always kept without a scratch.
Like God kept them alive because they needed to live with their mistake, like the whole thing had a purpose, creating the relationship between the ‘killer’-who have to live with his fetal mistake for the rest of his life and the grieving family- who have to live without their loved one/s for the rest of their life. it’s like a double lesson, one for each side and the challenge will be how both sides will handle it together- the findings of compassion and forgiveness through the healing process.
MoonDansyr
Senior Registered
What a wonderful message, Deborah! It just goes to show that love is the root of compassion and forgiveness. We just have to remember to find that love when situations seem the most difficult.
It is easy to fall into the role of victim when life throws us curve balls. But what we have to remember is that to growth happens when we are outside our comfort zones and be thankful that we're not living an easy, auto-piloted life of stagnation.
It is easy to fall into the role of victim when life throws us curve balls. But what we have to remember is that to growth happens when we are outside our comfort zones and be thankful that we're not living an easy, auto-piloted life of stagnation.
tanguerra
Moderator Emeritus
Here is a little something I prepared earlier...
This is a little excerpt on 'Forgiveness' from a longer work of mine which is based on the metaphor of navigating our way through life towards love, grace and compassion which lie to the 'north' and are our desired destination in life - hence the nautical references - but you will get my drift..:laugh: This could be applied to 'this life' or to many lives with equal validity. I could not help thinking this might add to the discussion....
“Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” Mahatma Mohandas Gandhi
Most people would like to think that they are very forgiving, but sadly, forgiveness can be difficult to really feel deep down inside when we have been hurt by someone or something. It can be difficult to truly feel forgiveness when we have been injured, even once we have said those magic words ‘I forgive you’. In theory, the stronger, wiser and more secure we are the more we should be able to withstand damage and therefore forgive those who harm us. This can be somewhat easier to say than to do however.
None of us is perfect. We all do stupid, hurtful and unwise things and have such things done to us. Some are minor, some major. Bad things happen to everyone some of the time. Life is like that. You don’t get your money back if you don’t like it and you can’t hit the ‘undo’ button when something goes wrong. So what to do if you have been harmed or offended in some way?
Taking the egoistic, self-justifying moral high ground when someone does something that causes us hurt and saying ‘Well, that is no way to behave. I would never do that. Such an action is simply unforgivable...” will shore up our sense of superiority, but will keep us locked in anger and bitterness. It will not assist us in making our way with any speed towards love. Maintaining a sense of self-righteousness comes with a very high price tag. Forgiveness is on our direct route from anger and fear towards love. Trying to get out of it or go round it will take a lot longer and be more difficult.
Of course you can choose to go the long way and proceed to hate and bitterness. It’s up to you. You are the captain of your own destiny, after all. However, I suggest forgiveness is much a much more pleasant route and will heal any number of hurts. Forgiveness can lift a giant weight from our hearts rather than add to our dismay. If we don’t really want to keep being dragged back into the pirate infested waters of anger and guilt, forgiveness is the quickest way out.
Once you have made the decision to forgive the hard work begins. Saying it and doing it are two very different things for most people....In order to truly forgive it is important to try to focus your thoughts and actions on kindness and compassion – to see things from the other person’s point of view. To do this you need to be understanding and accepting of human weaknesses and fallibilities, fears and frailties including your own...
This is a little excerpt on 'Forgiveness' from a longer work of mine which is based on the metaphor of navigating our way through life towards love, grace and compassion which lie to the 'north' and are our desired destination in life - hence the nautical references - but you will get my drift..:laugh: This could be applied to 'this life' or to many lives with equal validity. I could not help thinking this might add to the discussion....
“Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” Mahatma Mohandas Gandhi
Most people would like to think that they are very forgiving, but sadly, forgiveness can be difficult to really feel deep down inside when we have been hurt by someone or something. It can be difficult to truly feel forgiveness when we have been injured, even once we have said those magic words ‘I forgive you’. In theory, the stronger, wiser and more secure we are the more we should be able to withstand damage and therefore forgive those who harm us. This can be somewhat easier to say than to do however.
None of us is perfect. We all do stupid, hurtful and unwise things and have such things done to us. Some are minor, some major. Bad things happen to everyone some of the time. Life is like that. You don’t get your money back if you don’t like it and you can’t hit the ‘undo’ button when something goes wrong. So what to do if you have been harmed or offended in some way?
Taking the egoistic, self-justifying moral high ground when someone does something that causes us hurt and saying ‘Well, that is no way to behave. I would never do that. Such an action is simply unforgivable...” will shore up our sense of superiority, but will keep us locked in anger and bitterness. It will not assist us in making our way with any speed towards love. Maintaining a sense of self-righteousness comes with a very high price tag. Forgiveness is on our direct route from anger and fear towards love. Trying to get out of it or go round it will take a lot longer and be more difficult.
Of course you can choose to go the long way and proceed to hate and bitterness. It’s up to you. You are the captain of your own destiny, after all. However, I suggest forgiveness is much a much more pleasant route and will heal any number of hurts. Forgiveness can lift a giant weight from our hearts rather than add to our dismay. If we don’t really want to keep being dragged back into the pirate infested waters of anger and guilt, forgiveness is the quickest way out.
Once you have made the decision to forgive the hard work begins. Saying it and doing it are two very different things for most people....In order to truly forgive it is important to try to focus your thoughts and actions on kindness and compassion – to see things from the other person’s point of view. To do this you need to be understanding and accepting of human weaknesses and fallibilities, fears and frailties including your own...
What will you guys do if you are not the one who need to forgive, but, the one who need to be forgiven?
A kind of uncomfortable feeling has been haunting me these days. I can remember of a past life 200 years ago and recognize some of me close relatives and friends from that period. In that lifetime I got myself some searious trouble and directly or indirectly caused them some sufferings. In this lifetime they are still close to me. The pattern is that although we could have a honeymoon relation at first, I never was really accepted by them. The coldness and avoidness can be sensed. This really hurts me cause I didn't do anything wrong now. In some part of their hearts they still remembered.
I have no idea what happend in the 200 years and why the resent was not washed away by time.In the past life I remembered, I was not so evil(in my opinion) and myself was a victim in some sense.
So do I deserve this and will this negative circle continue?
A kind of uncomfortable feeling has been haunting me these days. I can remember of a past life 200 years ago and recognize some of me close relatives and friends from that period. In that lifetime I got myself some searious trouble and directly or indirectly caused them some sufferings. In this lifetime they are still close to me. The pattern is that although we could have a honeymoon relation at first, I never was really accepted by them. The coldness and avoidness can be sensed. This really hurts me cause I didn't do anything wrong now. In some part of their hearts they still remembered.
I have no idea what happend in the 200 years and why the resent was not washed away by time.In the past life I remembered, I was not so evil(in my opinion) and myself was a victim in some sense.
So do I deserve this and will this negative circle continue?
Charles Stuart
Senior Registered
Hi Hapfor,
Apparently, in each lifetime we are focussed on two or three past life karmic situations that we have to deal with, so I see nothing strange that you should perhaps be now solving situations from 200 years ago. I know that in my current lifetime I am still sorting out issues from my past lifetime as Charlie Stuart 250 years ago...
You are now in a condition of best resolving these issues with your relatives and friends that are connected to you from those timers. I would suggest being conscious and aware of this fact, and working upon it in the best way that you feel you can. :thumbsup:
And no, it is not a situation that will perpetuate itself so long as whatever issue it is gets sorted out.
Apparently, in each lifetime we are focussed on two or three past life karmic situations that we have to deal with, so I see nothing strange that you should perhaps be now solving situations from 200 years ago. I know that in my current lifetime I am still sorting out issues from my past lifetime as Charlie Stuart 250 years ago...
You are now in a condition of best resolving these issues with your relatives and friends that are connected to you from those timers. I would suggest being conscious and aware of this fact, and working upon it in the best way that you feel you can. :thumbsup:
And no, it is not a situation that will perpetuate itself so long as whatever issue it is gets sorted out.
Thank you Charles!
If seems you really have the picture what is happening to me now. Maybe you have gonethrough something with the same nature, then please do share your lessons!
I am not really bothered by their responses. In KILL BILL 2, Bill's brother said:"that woman deserves her revenge, and we, we deserve to die." I agree with him on this one. They deserve to hate me and I deserve to be hated. And I do not hate them because of this or regret what I had done.
What I fear most is that I seem lost the ability to love or to be loved after consistently being disappointed. My smile and tears are not true any more because I always see what is lying beneath. I didn't sort out a better way besides keeping a distance from them.
If seems you really have the picture what is happening to me now. Maybe you have gonethrough something with the same nature, then please do share your lessons!
I am not really bothered by their responses. In KILL BILL 2, Bill's brother said:"that woman deserves her revenge, and we, we deserve to die." I agree with him on this one. They deserve to hate me and I deserve to be hated. And I do not hate them because of this or regret what I had done.
What I fear most is that I seem lost the ability to love or to be loved after consistently being disappointed. My smile and tears are not true any more because I always see what is lying beneath. I didn't sort out a better way besides keeping a distance from them.