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Carl Jung's belief in Reincarnation

deborah

deborah

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I thought this was very interesting and want to share it with you all. I came across the work of a woman who use to live where my folks live now. Sabine Lucas, Ph.D. is a graduate of Heidelburg University and the Carl Jung Institute, Zurich.

In her studies and while she was there, she found that Carl Jung had written about reincarnation but it was the 1950's and reincarnation was not as well known or embraced as it is now:

Even Jung himself had not escaped censorship when, toward the end of his life, he had found psychological evidence for the existence of reincarnation. He had even written about it in his autobiography Memories, Dreams Reflections, but family and publisher, concerned for his reputation, had prevailed on him to take it out.
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Erlo van Wavern, a former analysand of Jung and a wealthy patron of the Jung Institute, published an account of his past life experiences in 1978 entitled Pilgrimage to the Rebirth. Jung worked with him on his experiences but made him promise he would not go public. Seventeen years after Jung's death however, he did.

I had long suspected that Jung might have embraced reincarnation and thought it was fascinating to find out - he did. I wonder if the Institute or his family has a copy of what he had intended to include in his book but removed.

Does anyone else have any research regarding Carl Jung and his belief in reincarnation?
 
I found a quote that is very interesting about Jung and van Waveren's discussions regarding rebirth:

.....in 1950, I spoke with Professor Jung about these surprising developments. In our conversation, he was as open, frank and revelatory as he would ever be with me. Our discussion then was at such an intimate level that the next day he requested Mrs. Jung to speak to me at the Jung Institute and tell me not to talk to anyone about our conversation.
In our Western world, Eastern concepts are often sooner accepted when presented in a more or less scientific light. Professor Jung was a past master at that. Whenever he spoke to me about an incarnation, it was referred to as an ancestor; "ancestral components," "psychic ancestors," "ancestral souls" are all expressions which Professor Jung used to express the idea of metamorphosis....
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Fascinating article and well written Amy. The only problem from a reincarnationists POV - it was written by a Chaplain and I think he is bias and against past life recall. It would be interesting to share with the author - what I posted above about Jung's original intent to include reincarnation in his book. :laugh:


He also seems rather focused on his own mission in the second article.

What Jung fails to realize is the scriptural truth that both heaven and hell exist, and that God has forbidden communication between the living and the dead.
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Always interesting to see anothers POV. Thanks Amy.
 
I find it interesting that in Memories, Dreams, Reflections Professor Jung writes:

"It had been asked by, as it were, my spiritual forefathers in the hope and expectation that they would learn what they had not been able to find out during their time on earth, since the answers first had to be created in the centuries that followed....
If question and answer had already been in existence in eternity, had always been there, no effort on my part would have been necessary and it could all have been discovered in any other century. There does seem to be unlimited knowledge present in nature, it is true, but it can be comprehended by consciousness only when the time is ripe for it." [C.G. Jung, Memories, Dreams, Reflections, p. 307. ]
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Erlo Van Waveren writes that time is now and he paraphrases Paul, who lived nearly 2000 years ago: "The trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised, incorruptible; we shall not die."
 
Heya Everyone :)


Well, I don't really understand why this topic is put in "Past Life Memories" section instead of other sections more directly related to the concept of reincarnation itself in this forum :confused:


Anyway, I suppose this is a sign that encourages me to ask this question:


What kind of Past-Life memories did Carl Jung get?


Deborah, dear Readers: can you please answer my question?


I really like Carl Jung, therefore I would really enjoy clues and answers :)


Deborah: I would also like to understand why you have insisted on this statement:


"What Jung fails to realize is the scriptural truth that both heaven and hell exist, and that God has forbidden communication between the living and the dead."


Thanks for sharing :)


Kind regards,


Axel :)
 
"What Jung fails to realize is the scriptural truth that both heaven and hell exist, and that God has forbidden communication between the living and the dead."


The above is a quote from an article that Amy posted - and it was in reference to my statement that the author for her links was writing from a Christian POV.


I posted this in the memories section because I have referenced several people who have past life memories -Jung included.
 
Heya Deborah :)


Thanks for your kind answer :)


I am sorry to sound ignorant but can you please tell what a "POV" is? I am new to this forum and I am sorry to admit that I don't understand that acronym : angel


I like the way Carl Jung talked about "ancestral history" (quote from CARL G. JUNG, By Chaplain Paul G. Durbin, Ph.D., Amy's weblink):

"Jung's states that the primordial image, or archetype, is a figure - be it a demon, a human being, or a process - that constantly recurs in the course of history and appears wherever creative fantasy is freely expressed. Essentially it is a mythological figure. In each of these images there is a little piece of human psychology and human fate, a remnant of the joys and sorrows that have been repeated countless times in our ancestral history. Jung believed that all of the most powerful ideas in history go back to archetypes. This is particularly true of religious ideas, but the central concepts of science, philosophy, and ethics are no exception to this rule. In their present from they are variants of archetypal ideas, created by consciously applying and adapting these ideas to reality. For it is the function of consciousness not only to recognize and assimilate the external world through the gateway of the senses, but to translate into visible reality the world within us."
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This primordial image makes me wonder about what my oldest Past-Life is, my very first one... I hope I'll get memories about it some day :)


Dear Deborah: please let us know of any other Carl Jung's Past-life memories :)


Kind regards,


Axel :)
 
POV = Point of View. No problem. ;)


I am not sure I can locate specific memories of his but will try. I was posting about his thoughts to another person -- when he was alive -- regarding reincarnation and how his peers told him not to share. Hopefully, someday - his PL experiences will be made public.


Perhaps the work of Erlo van Wavern will shed some light on it.
 
Deborah, thanks for posting about Carl Jung! He was the reason I changed my mind about dropping Psych in college :D


I think he was very brave in arguing the ideas he did at the time without the theme of reincarnation, though now I believe he indirectly left pointers about it everywhere.
 
Heya Deborah :)


I really hope Carl Jung's PL-experiences will be made public too :)


Please let us know as early as they are published, alright? :thumbsup:


I like Carl Jung's vocabulary for "PL-memories" :)


Kind regards,


Axel :)
 
I am not surprised that Jung believed in reincarnation. He was a very deep and introspective thinker and it always struck me as odd in fact this phenomenon was something left out of his work. Now I know why. He edited it out!


I always thought reincarnation was a much simpler explanation for the 'collective unconscious' than some kind of group mind (although I believe there is room for both in the human experience).


When he would recount a story, for instance, of a patient having visions of ancient Aztec symbols or various other arcane imagery and say there was no explanation for this other than some kind of group mind tapping into the collective unconscious I would always think... "Well, hang on, there is another explanation actually. Perhaps this person was there."
 
Jung's


What is often cited from Jung about question of afterlife is a section from his late work, Memories, dreams, reflections in which he stated he might have been here on Earth in the XVII. century for being so much drawn to alchemists. I have browsed through the GW (Gesammelte Werke - Jung's complete works), but I haven't found valuable pieces of information on reincarnation. Only as organic part of Eastern religions, but never as a personal experience, or that of his patients.


Is it true that Jung's works were re-edited by the publisher or a family member? I haven't even thought of it, but as Nietsche's example shows it is not impossible. However I think there are even more hazy parts, for example about syncronicity, still left in.


Skarphedinn
 
Welcome,

He had even written about it in his autobiography Memories, Dreams Reflections, but family and publisher, concerned for his reputation, had prevailed on him to take it out.
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In other words they talked him into not including his thoughts or memories regarding reincarnation in his book. Wavern and his wife are still alive and have a website. According to my resources he talked to Jung in depth about this. Perhaps you might want to contact him directly? If you do - please keep us posted.
 
Jung and Kuhn


Thank you for being welcome.


Yes, I am interested in having contact with him. I was glad to see this thread about Jung, that is the reason why I joined the forum. It was his impact on me that I started dealing with such idealistic thoughts like archetypes. Last year I read Revolution of cosciousness, a talk amongst Ervin László, Stanislav Grof and Peter Russell. This is a work, which can be taken seriously, and amongst other relevant topics, deals with reincarnation as well.


After reading Thomas Kuhn's Structure of sientific revolutions, I became convinced that seemingly contradictory theories can complement each other - in this case materialistic and idealistic aspects of science. To tell the truth, I have been more familiar with the materielistic aspect, Jung meant the other side for me.


So unlike most of you, I have just started these researches, and I am eager to get more known.


Skarphedinn
 
HI Skarphedinn,

....a talk amongst Ervin László, Stanislav Grof and Peter Russell
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Wish I could have been there. I have their books.


Also - I think a certain amount of skepticism is healthy. ;) Makes for great discussions.
 
On Club of Budapest


It must have been a great fun! This conversation took place eleven years ago and put into writing half a year later. I have read Macroshift by Ervin László, and Beyond death by Grof. I know almost nothing of Peter Russell :(


Here is the link to the Club of Budapest,


http://www.clubofbudapest.org/


it is worth browsing, but my favourite, Revolution of cosciousness is displayed in Hungarian only.


Well, I feel my scepticism is still within healthy frontiers - so great discussions are granted :thumbsup:


Skarphedinn
 
Thanks for the link - I enjoy reading about Prof. Dr .Dr. Ervin Laszlo's work and studies. Definitely a healthy frontier. :thumbsup:
 
Jung


This is a very interesting thread. The works of Carl Jung have lead me to several answers about life that I could not find anywhere else.


In the book, "The Wisdom of Carl Jung," which is a collection of quotes by Jung compiled and edited by Edward Hoffman, PhD (Citadel Press 2003), there is only one reference to reincarnation attributed to Jung:


"Nobody knows whether there is reincarnation, and equally one does not know that there is none. Buddha himself was convinced of reincarnation, but he himself on being asked twice by his disciples about it, left it quite open whether there is continuity of personality or not. Certainly we do not know where we come from, nor where we are going, or why we are here at the present time. I think it is right to believe that having done the best we could do here, we are also best prepared for things to come."


The reference for this quote is: C. G. Jung: Letters. Volume 1: 1906-1950. Volume 2: 1951-1961. Selected and edited by Gerhard Adler. In collaboration with Aniela Jaffe. Translated from German by R. F. C. Hull. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1975.


Of course, this quote has to be read within the context of the times in which he lived, realizing that anyone of his stature had to be careful what he wrote in letters that could be made public.


Having studied Jung's works for years, I came to the conclusion that he most likely did believe in reincarnation, and given his lifelong spontaneous psychic experiences, most likely had some spontaneous past life memories.
 
I like your approach to the topic, Don Quixote.


It is a good question, why Jung himself dealt so little with the question of reincarnation. In one of his last books, Memories, dreams, reflections he says (I don't quote it word by word) he cannot imagine, there is no meaningful continuation after death. Second half of human life cannot be simply shadow of the glorious first one, but has its own meaning (he called this individuation). And he couldn't imagine the afterlife so passive as to sit on a cloud and play the harp all the time either. He also adds, there are people, who are so mistreated by bad fortune that there is no way they want to continue existence in any form, but normally a person uses his last decades with preparations to a meaningful death after a meaningful life.


Does it mean he believed in reincarnation? I wouldn's say a definite yes, but these hazy words can confirm that.


In another book, also often quoted, he said, he was stuck in the 16th century for a while, and he believes he could have lived then and there. He also hinted that he could have lived in England, and some other places in his works he connects it with his longing for England. This episode is also mentioned in the Frank McLynn's Jung biography, where is stated Jung's desire to stay in Scotland (and England, for he also travelled through his favourite country) in 1914, for Jung was invited to a university that year, but he was obliged to go home to Switzerland. These arguments are rather for the belief in reincarnation.


But we also can say some other ones, which are against it. For example he wrote a book (The seven sermons to the dead) about communication with the dead/spirits, he wrote about his near death experience, but he didn't mention anything seriously about reincarnation. I guess, even if he believed, he didn't mention for some good reasons. For example he experienced those mystic states of minds I have described above, but he didn't have a real past life experience.


I cannot give you a definite answer, but if Jung decides to come to us again, we might get answers to these mysteries.


Skarphedinn
 
Continuity


Interesting reading about Jung and reincarnation (soul transmigration). Jung's beliefs (and knowing) get called "blasphemy" and other not-so-good terms by literalists. Yet Jung has come closer to bringing me back to Christianity via Gnosticism than ANY historical literalist. Not just Jung's words, but my life experiences (including regressions) and Jung's psychology.


I was Jewish in my last lifetime, and probably others too. In this lifetime I knew at age 12 that I didn't believe the dogma of the Congregational Church I was raised in. I assumed there was something wrong with me, that I was faulty and bad.


In this lifetime I carry traits from my last lives, some of which I'm aware of (and am changing). I also carry traits that go with the DNA and ancestry of the body I occupy. So I am blending the characteristics of TWO ancestries and forming a new, more diverse and integrated personality.


The continuity is in my Spirit, my "Higher Self" Aumakua. The bodies and circumstances change, and "I" develope and grow.


OBTW I have fun pointing out to my literalist Christian Friends that Rabbi Yehoshva bin Josef (Jesus is the Roman name) was a Jew. I think it's hilarious that Yehoshva can't be a Christian.
 
It could easily be said that Carl Jung's professional observations in relation to reincarnation were quite similar to Dr. Brian Weiss; in that he considered the past lives of some of his patients to be a possible component of their subconscious mind. And, he felt that, by uncovering such memories, he could create a kind of catharsis, which would bring about a possible resolution.


It's interesting that the word "catharsis" would be employed here, because it contains the same root word for "cleansing" as used to describe the Gnostic Cathars of Southern France during the 14th Century. Jung's knowledge of the Cathars was substantial.


Jung's awareness of reincarnation and gnosticism can be easily traced to his childhood dreams, which would now be considered past life memories, and these were filled with verifiable detail at an age that would preclude any current lifetime exposure. He was, thus, in a position later on during his professional practice to recognize the same circumstances with three and four-year olds. At first he believed that their knowledge and detail could have been the result of having some kind of access to a collective unconscious; but later changed his mind, when he considered the degree of personal emotion they experienced while remembering such things.


He has been described as the father of the modern New Age Movement, which some would find unfortunate; because he was more of a scientific observer than the term would imply. It is believed, however, that his influence helped to create a more comfortable atmosphere within many religious denominations to allow a much broader acceptance of reincarnation among their followers.


One very good article on this aspect of Carl Jung's life, experience and practices relating to this subject can be found here:


http://www.susanrennison.co.uk/Planetary Challenges & Evolution_June_2011.pdf


-Nightrain
 
Re: Article posted by Nighttrain.


That was an interesting article, though it reeked of sophistry, IMO. The writer seemed to be cherry-picking aspects of Jung's beliefs and sayings and deliberately presenting them in a way that would work fundamentalist christians into a froth (which isn't exactly difficult at the best of times...). It's also laughable that the writer, someone who very probably believes the story of Adam and Eve from the bible was a literal event would dismiss a concept like the collective unconscious as being "nonsense".


Interestingly, the writer of the article leaves out one very profound quote from Jung who, when asked if he believed in God said "I don't believe... I know".
 
Ouch, Inphanta!


I admit that the article was "cherry picked", and I would have derived the same sound bites from what I know of his remarkable life. But, sophistry? Where do you see deceit in the article? I must have missed his comment about the collective unconscious. I took it to mean that personal memory was a more likely reason for childrens' memories than pure psychic awareness -- "collective unconscious".


-Nightrain
 
I see your point, Nighttrain but the reason I believe the writer of that article was being dishonest is by virtue of its subjectivity. To me, it read as if it was written specifically to demonise Jung in the eyes of certain christians who, having read this, I imagine would not try to explore Jung's actual beliefs any further.


It took his childhood dream about religion out of context and did not elaborate on it at all, simply describing it as "immoral". It skims over his actual works and discoveries and focuses on the psychic phenomena he experienced and researched without attempting to explain where he was going with any of it. It even brings up his personal affairs with other mistresses later in life which have no bearing on his work at all.


As for the part about the collective unconscious, again it read as though the writer was being deliberately dismissive:

Jung believed in the “Collective Unconscious,” which is supposedly the universal consciousness of mankind that lies at a subconscious level. It apparently consists of the sum total of man’s thinking since he evolved from animals, and through psychiatry and mystical religion man can delve into this realm... This, of course, is one of the foundational doctrines of the New Age and doubtless came from Jung’s study of eastern religion and various forms of occultic mysticism such as Theosophy.
The “collective unconscious” is pure myth.
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Again, the writer doesn't even attempt to approach this objectively at all, assuming his own beliefs to be correct. Granted, not everyone will accept or believe Jung's view, but it doesn't sound as if he's even tried to understand it, and trying to write it off as "New Age nonsense" (which is basically what he does) is pretty lazy, IMO.


This is all simply what I interpreted from the writing, though.


Either way, it just highlights my problem with a lot of fundamentalist christian thought. They tend to be quick to demonise and dismiss anything that disagrees with their rigid, austere, biblically literalist interpretation of the world assuming themselves to be right and everyone else wrong.


I've read similar writings from people like this guy trying to write off reincarnation as the "devil's doctrine" and past-life memory recall as simply false memories planted in people's heads by malevolent demons trying to trick people into believing the "wrong" things. (I'll try and find some articles when I get more time). And as with this link, they tend to show a basic lack of understanding of the things they are attempting to demonise, which makes their position faulty from the off, IMO.


Here's an article on music from the same website which pretty much sums up why these people shouldn't be taken seriously (in my eyes, at least): http://www.wayoflife.org/files/category-music.html


I could go on about this all day because it's a personal bugbear of mine. Either way, I'm of the opinion that whether one believes a POV or not, at least approach it with an open mind. There was nothing open-minded about Cloud's assessment of Jung's work, IMO.
 
I see your point, now, Inphanta.


I admit that I'm not very fond of fundamentalism, myself. In fact, if I had been fully aware of the other articles, I would have rejected the article on Jung as well. What drew me in was the summary of Jung's work, which appeared to be accurately recounted, in spite of the writer's point of view. I was a bit slow to even notice where the writer was going with it. Jung, by all accounts was a very spiritual person, whose work deserves much more examination and appreciation. It is unfortunate, however, that he is often pigeon-holed with the New Age Movement, which could have the effect of dragging down his work; because "New Age" can often include less academic or "off the wall" concepts.


Thanks for taking the time to clarify your position, friend, as I find your opinions quite in line with mine.


-Nightrain
 
An older thread for new members.


Jung did believe in reincarnation. His sister in-law use to frequent the forum in the early years.
 
I am still studying Carl Jung and his theories. I find him a fascinating person but I must say that I still have not complety grasped all of his concepts, and I wonder if anyone actually does. It is fascinating that he espouses reincarnation. I noted that someone stated in one of the previous posts that Jung had past life memories. Is this true? If so where are the original sources where one can reference this?
 
Even though this is an older thread - I like Jung as well because I found his 'Shadow Self' concept very helpful.
 
I will and any can look to see if they can find the following:

Erlo van Wavern, a former analysand of Jung and a wealthy patron of the Jung Institute, published an account of his past life experiences in 1978 entitled Pilgrimage to the Rebirth. Jung worked with him on his experiences but made him promise he would not go public. Seventeen years after Jung's death however, he did.
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