• Thank you to Carol and Steve Bowman, the forum owners, for our new upgrade!

A Potentially Charged Thread

Shiftkitty

Shiftkitty

Registered User
I apologize if this explodes. I tried to PM it for review before posting, but her mailbox is full, and this question has been burning in my mind for awhile now.

How has a belief in reincarnation affected your opinion on abortion? Do you believe we have the right to take the life that is on it's way to this world?

(I believe that life and the soul's entry into the body begins at conception, so I'm generally against abortion.)
 
My opinion is actually different from yours. Not only do I believe that the soul's entry is after a brain has formed, I also believe that abortions may be predicted so that a soul may not even be planning to enter the body unless birth is likely. Even if a soul has already entered when abortion occurs, maybe it will leave the body early to avoid any kind of physical pain. Of course, I could be totally wrong with my opinion, so I don't say I'm in favour of abortions if you know what I mean. I'm on the fence.
 
I personally don't mind giving my opinion regarding abortion, as long as other members understand that I don't plan to inflict my opinion on anyone through public policy advocacy. My own exposure to the concept of reincarnation has certainly caused me to adjust my views on abortion considerably in that I am no longer conflicted about death, and I have have greater trust in the guidance of spiritual entities. So, when it comes to abortion I am compassionate equally toward the mother as toward the child. I would not advocate it for anyone in my household and I would show compassion while encouraging a loved one to keep the child. As for others, it is none of my business and should be left to the individual to decide for themselves.


Whether the soul enters the physical body at conception or at birth is impossible to determine, and therefore impossible for anyone to legislate public policy concerning this issue. Some may feel that opening the door to abortion would make human euthanasia and eugenics the next issue of debate. However, I would probably stand by with equal ambivalence, knowing that death happens at every turn while the soul lives on. Sickness, disease, war, accidents and all forms of violence will continue, and we will just keep coming back until everyone eventually realizes that our material values are twisted, short-sighted, and counter productive. So, abortion is one of those issues that probably shouldn't be an issue of national policy.
 
Nightrain said:
I personally don't mind giving my opinion regarding abortion, as long as other members understand that I don't plan to inflict my opinion on anyone through public policy advocacy. My own exposure to the concept of reincarnation has certainly caused me to adjust my views on abortion considerably in that I am no longer conflicted about death, and I have have greater trust in the guidance of spiritual entities. So, when it comes to abortion I am compassionate equally toward the mother as toward the child. I would not advocate it for anyone in my household and I would show compassion while encouraging a loved one to keep the child. As for others, it is none of my business and should be left to the individual to decide for themselves.
Whether the soul enters the physical body at conception or at birth is impossible to determine, and therefore impossible for anyone to legislate public policy concerning this issue. Some may feel that opening the door to abortion would make human euthanasia and eugenics the next issue of debate. However, I would probably stand by with equal ambivalence, knowing that death happens at every turn while the soul lives on. Sickness, disease, war, accidents and all forms of violence will continue, and we will just keep coming back until everyone eventually realizes that our material values are twisted, short-sighted, and counter productive. So, abortion is one of those issues that probably shouldn't be an issue of national policy.
Click to expand...
This is about as clean and clear an explanation and understanding of this potential hotwire topic as I can imagine...beyond this I can't contribute anything more pertinent.
 
On all aspects of life I am freedom of choice. Do as you wish as long as you do not hurt anyone else. To me that means I would support a woman I am close to no matter what that choice is, and that support will come from me without me questioning her for her decision.


If she chooses to have the baby I will help her buy clothing for the baby, provide assistance where needed, even be there during the birth if she needs.


If she chooses to adopt, I will be there when she delivers, help her choose the right family for that baby, and hold her when she needs me afterward.


If she chooses an abortion, I would go with her, even hold her hand during the procedure if she asks. I would also be there for her afterward for whatever she needs, as long as it takes.


That said, I believe a child's soul can enter and exit at will while in the womb, and enters not too long before birth permanently.


I also believe that when a pregnancy ends either through abortion or miscarriage that soul returns to Heaven because the time is not right, and it may choose to return later to that same mother.


For the record, I am Catholic but was raised Methodist.
 
Nightrain said:
I personally don't mind giving my opinion regarding abortion, as long as other members understand that I don't plan to inflict my opinion on anyone through public policy advocacy. My own exposure to the concept of reincarnation has certainly caused me to adjust my views on abortion considerably in that I am no longer conflicted about death, and I have have greater trust in the guidance of spiritual entities. So, when it comes to abortion I am compassionate equally toward the mother as toward the child. I would not advocate it for anyone in my household and I would show compassion while encouraging a loved one to keep the child. As for others, it is none of my business and should be left to the individual to decide for themselves.
Whether the soul enters the physical body at conception or at birth is impossible to determine, and therefore impossible for anyone to legislate public policy concerning this issue. Some may feel that opening the door to abortion would make human euthanasia and eugenics the next issue of debate. However, I would probably stand by with equal ambivalence, knowing that death happens at every turn while the soul lives on. Sickness, disease, war, accidents and all forms of violence will continue, and we will just keep coming back until everyone eventually realizes that our material values are twisted, short-sighted, and counter productive. So, abortion is one of those issues that probably shouldn't be an issue of national policy.
Click to expand...
I couldn't have expressed my thoughts as well as Nightrain, only to add ...NOONE knows when soul enters the body. It could be at conception, soon after birth, or any time in between. Abortion is the woman's choice and NOONE else's. She is the ONLY one that knows how she feels and since reincarnation is a natural reality the soul will reincarnate somewhere else. The woman could have had a change of mind or heart, due to any number of circumstances, and it is her choice and her choice ONLY. She will be the one to serve the karma, if any, for her decision. Maybe time just isn't right for this soul to enter this life?
 
A belief in reincarnation hasnt affected my opinon on abortions at all. I'm pro choice, always was, always have been.
 
Abortion is one of those things that should be avoided if possible. But if not possible I don't think reincarnation has got anything to do with it one way or another. Taking a life should never be done lightly whether it is in war, public execution, political assassination or simple murder. People always 'have their reasons' for doing these things and to them they no doubt seem like good reasons at the time. Sometimes they are carefully considered. Sometimes not. It's up to an individual to make these judgements ultimately. But society tends to frown upon the taking of a life, unless it is done by 'the state'. In an ideal world there would be no need for anyone to take anyone's life for any reason, but we don't live in an ideal world, do we?


It is in general thought that the 'soul' attaches to the body somewhere around the three months mark. About this time the mother will often feel the baby begin to move. It's called 'the quickening'. But it can be any time from conception or even just after birth. I don't know why this is - some scheduling issues up in 'heaven' perhaps? Who knows really.
 
I've always been pro-choice, as who am I to tell someone what they can and can not do? That is not position, nor my right. However, before I believed in reincarnation and after, my views have not changed on being pro-choice, however, what did change is how I view what happens to a soul ( whether it is there within the child or not) If you take the religious route, you'll see it shows the soul enters a heaven like place as it is an innocent being, and if you take the case for reincarnation, the soul if it was there, still goes on. So regardless, IMHO, the soul is still intact and still exists regardless.
 
Nightrain said:
I personally don't mind giving my opinion regarding abortion, as long as other members understand that I don't plan to inflict my opinion on anyone through public policy advocacy. My own exposure to the concept of reincarnation has certainly caused me to adjust my views on abortion considerably in that I am no longer conflicted about death, and I have have greater trust in the guidance of spiritual entities. So, when it comes to abortion I am compassionate equally toward the mother as toward the child. I would not advocate it for anyone in my household and I would show compassion while encouraging a loved one to keep the child. As for others, it is none of my business and should be left to the individual to decide for themselves.
Whether the soul enters the physical body at conception or at birth is impossible to determine, and therefore impossible for anyone to legislate public policy concerning this issue. Some may feel that opening the door to abortion would make human euthanasia and eugenics the next issue of debate. However, I would probably stand by with equal ambivalence, knowing that death happens at every turn while the soul lives on. Sickness, disease, war, accidents and all forms of violence will continue, and we will just keep coming back until everyone eventually realizes that our material values are twisted, short-sighted, and counter productive. So, abortion is one of those issues that probably shouldn't be an issue of national policy.
Click to expand...
I couldn't have written this any better myself. I do think, however that the soul connects with the body in the second trimester or about five to six months. I think that since the soul is made of energy, it must connect with energy. Our brains are the biggest creator of energy in our bodies, and the brain is simply not large or developed enough until the fifth or six month to put out the kind of energy that would be needed for the soul to connect.


This is based on a bit of logic and a pre-birth memory of mine.
 
I'm grateful this didn't go off the rails from the get-go. I'm enjoying reading the responses, nice, well-articulated, and mature responses even if I disagree with some.
 
Well, like what the others have stated, I would support the person no matter what.. But it would be much better if you don't.. I feel this way mainly because I can't stand seeing the doctor just taking it away, it would be similar to murder, even though many has stated the soul enters the body later.. But it will still feel that way, to me. But I understand sometimes it is necessary but its still sad anyway.
 
Interpreting the question more as, ‘...if I was opposed to abortion would definitive proof of reincarnation change my mind?’, no, I don’t think mine would change, I think that one’s stance has to be worked out independently of one’s belief in reincarnation. Knowing that there was reincarnation wouldn’t suddenly cause me take a cavalier attitude towards death. As to when the soul enters the body, that’s a sticky issue from the get-go since there’s no agreement on what the soul is, but even if we go with the traditional view of it, there are many women (of varying beliefs) who claim to have sensed their babies’ souls from conception, and sometimes even before, and I can’t disregard them. In the end, though, I have to say that while I don’t like the idea of abortion, I can’t oppose it. When it comes to issues of morality all I can do is try to live my life by making the best decisions I can with whatever information I have, and with the understanding that sometimes I’m not going to live up to the highest ideals, and I have to allow others to do the same with their lives.
 
A declaration of love


The loss of a child is one of the most terrible experiences a soul can go through! I know...when I was young I had an abortion, and the loss of this child has burned my soul forever! I would like to post something that I had posted about a year or so ago to a woman who had just lost her child and wondered if there was a chance that this little soul could reincarnate to be with her again.This is what I said, more or less...When my daughter was about seven, I felt it was time to let her know that she was not my first child, but my second. (Ofcourse at this age with no details) She was happily playing in her room and as I told her my eyes filled with tears and I cried...she turned around and said to me "Don't be sad mama, I came back to you" and then continued playing as if it was the most normal thing in the world! I have never forgiven myself and to this day the pain is still fresh, but with her words, I have the feeling that there is no judgment on the "Other Side" Although I have had an abortion, and although I would never do it again...I am pro-choice. I still light candles for my first child, but the thought that my brilliant daughter (now 27) is the same soul, and waited to be with me, is a declaration of love!
 
Aelfgyva, what a wonderful story!


My belief in reincarnation has only strengthened my opinion that abortion should be legal, safe, and rare.


I remember planning parts of my life in advance. These memories have clearly shown me that, at least in my family, choice is always involved. I can only assume that everyone else has the same opportunities. The mother chooses the child, the child chooses the parents, and sometimes, one party or the other changes their mind . . . even at the eleventh hour.


My first child waited until the 4th month of pregnancy to enter her body. It was a scary, awesome, earth-shaking moment that I simply could not explain away as 'just my imagination.' It really happened. And yet, it is impossible for me to explain to someone else what occurred. Saying that there was an energy in the room that built and built, followed by a pause, like someone about to jump off a cliff, and then a sort-of snuggle and unspoken appology, does not do that moment justice. Afterwards, I simply had to have a glass of milk.


My oldest is now 8. She is crazy about milk. Coincidence? Possibly . . . but I don't think so.


My second child, Emily, had been checking-in on the family periodically when I became pregnant with her, but she only attached to her new body at the 5th month.


My third child was supposed to be a boy, according to his pre-life discussions with me in Bardo. That pregnacy resulted in a blighted ovum, so essentially, conception occurred, but no child grew. I had some dreams that gave me clues as to what might have happened to him. It has at least given me closure, even if it is just a figment of my own imagination. I miss this boy I never had, but I wish him well. If his parents are not good to him, they will one day have to answer to me.


Incidentally, I had an abortion to end this pregnancy. The anti-abortion lobby, in my opinion, does not really consider real-life senarios like mine when they try to outlaw abortion with a broad brush. What was I supposed to do, have a misscarriage at work? Not work for weeks while I waited for the inevitable to occur? What if it took more than a few weeks? Should I have waited until my life was in danger? Then I would have had to pay for an extended hospital stay on top of everything else. Of one thing, I am certain. My boy did not care if I had an abortion. He had already chosen someone else.


I have no idea when my third child joined her body. She may have been there at conception. I simply don't know. I have a harder time getting a read on her than on her siblings. She seems to have spent more of her past lives with my husband than with me. That said, at almost 2 she is a delight. I can't wait to see what nuggets from her past lives slip out!
 
My belief in reincarnation has no influence on my position on abortion. While I am not 'for' abortion, I do think that in some circumstances abortion is one of the hard choices a mom may need to make for various reasons (an agonizing situation that I hope that neither I nor anyone I care for ever has to face).


However, the aspect that my belief in reincarnation does influence regarding abortion is the child's choice in it all - I don't subscribe to the belief that the child signs on knowing that the mom will choose an abortion, because in my thinking that limits the free will that the moms have. How could the child 'know' what will come to pass unless the future is more set than I prefer to believe.
 
Believing in reincarnation has not necessarily changed my stance, so much as my views on abortion. I am pro- choice, although I feel it should be last resort, but when you believe in reincarnation, death is not the great end everyone else makes it out to be.


People who don't believe feel that the child will never have a chance at life, when in reality, they have already lived many lives.
 
I remember reading a story, I think it was in one of Michael Newton's books, about a client of his that was remembering an abortion. This particular soul was waiting to be born to a specific mother. This woman's first pregnancy was aborted so this soul didn't get the opportunity to inhabit that body. Later that same woman was pregnant again and decided to keep that child. The same soul that missed out on being born as the aborted child was there to inhabit the body of her second child.


On a personal level I lean towards pro life, though I'm not as much so as I used to be. Though the life of a fetus is ended, the soul isn't completely denied the opportunity at life.
 
My Two Little Soul Children


Children I have lost thru miscarriage are awaiting the chance to be born to their sisters. I am looking forward to meeting them in the flesh ... and spoiling them ;) LOL
 
There are so many aspects when it comes to abortion that I find it difficult to be for or against. I am pro-choice, as you call it, however living in a country where abortion has been free and legal since 1973 has once in a while raised questions in the media as well as personally.


I remember when I was 15 and was an exchange student in Ireland. There was a much talked about case in the media about a young girl, who had been raped. The rape had resulted in a pregnancy, but in catholic Ireland - at least at the time - abortion was illegal and impossible. So the girl travelled to the UK. I was appalled at the time - and I still is - when I think of the poor girl, who had no choice in becoming pregnant and - had she obeyed the rules - would have given birth to the child of her rapist. That is inhuman in my eyes.


However in Denmark we have cases of very late abortions and there are some girls, who think they don't need to use prevention, because if they get pregnant they can just get an abortion. That is wrong. However the problem is not that abortion is free and legal, but the attitude among some people. Most women getting an abortion have very valid reason. It is not an easy choice, but sometimes it's neccessary.


Reincarnation has not made me change my mind about it, because in that case I think it's important to to think of the present life lived. Surely, there are ethical considerations, but I would never think of it as committing a murder.
 
Well stated Sunniva. This is a topic that I've struggled with for years. People want to see it as black and white but there is so much grey area. Like the Irish girl, for her to not only have to endure the trauma of being raped, but have to carry and raise the child of the man who raped her, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. On the other hand, I don't like the idea of the government (i.e. the tax payers) paying for girls who refuse to accept the responsibilty of making poor choices in life. That too is wrong. And this is coming from someone who found myself in just such a situation in my last life having a child as the result of a poor decision.


To me this topic cannot be painted with a wide brush. It almost has to be a case-by-case thing. Not to mention I'm in no position to throw stones. : angel
 
Another thing that is not discussed in abortion debates is the role of the economy. Statistics that have been kept since 1974 tell us that the worse the economy, the higher the rate of abortion is, and the better the economy is the the lower the rate of abortion is. Another trend being tracked is since 2008, abortion rates among women who are already mothers has gone up. The reason? These women want to save resources for the children they already have. They or their partners have lost jobs and they are already struggling, so adding one more would break them. Once again, we are back to economics.


Don't know if this is off-track or not....
 
I believe there are chapters on this very subject in Carol Bowman's and Michael Newton's books.


I do remember reading something about a child remembering a "snake" from before (the mother had an abortion previously the child didn't know about, and that soul came back as her child again). There is both the "why didn't you want me?" heartbreak as well as the "I understand" aspect from another case. I also remember reading about a doctor who asked mothers considering abortion to write their feelings to their unborn children- that they loved them, but just couldn't have a baby at that time. Some had spontaneous miscarriages, as if the soul "understood."


I was pro-choice before, and am still pro-choice now. Obviously as a "last resort," but I think souls understand. Someone described it more as a nuisance- like waiting very long for a taxi, then the taxi leaves without them.
 
An ABC report from last December about the widespread abortion and murder of baby daughters in India came to my attention—and causes me to wonder, if it is their belief in reincarnation which allows such callousness toward life; or is it their attachment to materiality which compels them to take such drastic steps?
 
I read an interesting article not so long ago that said the issue is turning, now there are many men with not enough women for brides, so it is the girls that are valuable.


It is very bad that there are people who would abort because they want a boy and the child is a girl.
 
I had an abortion many years ago. I was not happy with myself at the time for doing this. Several years later I had three more children. This was when the full horror of what I had done affected me. I was wracked with remorse and sorrow. I prayed for forgiveness from the soul I had denied life to. For several years I could not forgive myself. Eventually the sorrow healed and I realised I have received spiritual gifts of humility and love to replace my suffering. In hindsight this situation was a serious lesson in my life. I personally think the idea of abortion should be approached with deep caution. H001
 
Gerania, thank you for sharing such an intimate and difficult experience. I have no doubt of that it is a tough choice to make and to live with afterwards.


Nightrain, you bring up an interesting point. It is a huge problem in parts of India that baby boys are more prefered than girls. Just last week I read that a study in Norway showed a very disproportionate number of girls and boys in the Indian immigrant population. Since it has been possible to know the gender of the child early on - apparantly (too) many families has chosen to abort female embryos. In India it's a real problem now, because there are far too many men and not enough women. Entire villages consists only of men.


It is interesting that this in a country and among a population where reincarnation is a fact of life. However, I think it has more to do with culture than faith.
 
Nightrain said:
and causes me to wonder, if it is their belief in reincarnation which allows such callousness toward life; or is it their attachment to materiality which compels them to take such drastic steps?
Click to expand...
I watched that report as well. None of it (to me) seemed to be based on their belief in reincarnation - it all seemed to be about money (the dowry issue for the poor) and status.
 
An ABC report from last December about the widespread abortion and murder of baby daughters in India came to my attention—and causes me to wonder, if it is their belief in reincarnation which allows such callousness toward life; or is it their attachment to materiality which compels them to take such drastic steps?
Click to expand...
I feel it's materialism. Many all over the world believe in reincarnation, but only the cultures who view females as an economic liability go so far as to murder newborn females.


Gerania - Aw, I'm so sorry it was so difficult for you. I'm glad you've made peace with yourself now. You made the choices you had to, in the situation and time you were in.
 
Truthseeker said:
I don't like the idea of the government (i.e. the tax payers) paying for girls who refuse to accept the responsibilty of making poor choices in life.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, it is against the law for federal dollars to pay for abortions in the United States. Any taxpayer money that Planned Parenthood receives, for instance, pays for screenings for diseases, cancer, and affordable birth control.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top